Lockdowns will not work now.

[OnionString]

The longer this goes on, the less people are going to abide by the "rules". Our lives and freedom have been taken away from us. Now we are getting back some, only for them to be snatched away. Our children education is ruined. Lockdowns only delay the inevitable. Instead of furlough, bike schemes etc, the government should have been ploughing all that money into recruiting nurses, doctors, carers, building even more temp hospitals to deal with the pandemic. Until the vaccine is ready (assuming the trials are successful) the virus is going nowhere no matter how many ridiculous rules we are told to abide by. Life has to go on for the majority, and yes this means sadly more deaths.

I think it is interesting the Mumsnet prevailing theory seems to be to prevent the spread we need to

• shut schools
• wear masks

But otherwise we should be fine going about our lives with the social distancing measure we have in place.

The difficulty I have with that is the rise in Spain happened despite

• schools being shut (it’s been the summer holidays there since June and they did not do a full reopening before that)
• mask wearing that is very prevalent

So it seems to be that it is over opasmistic to suggest that is enough to control it and some more lockdown type measure are necessary. But that is difficult re compliance since we always knew that the economy cannot manage with lockdown longer term and people who are have no money for food will break lockdown measures (we got compliance in March heavily due to the furlough scheme and related help for the self employed but that will in October)

Quite frankly looking around the globe I cannot see a way out of this that involves public health measures short of lockdown. Both Australia and Hong Kong had done exceptionally well and yet now have surges the moment that measures were relaxed. I don’t know what the answer is but I am becoming increasingly uncertain that public health measures alone can offer any realistic solution to this crisis and as more become despondent that will decrease compliance.

I guess we really do just have to hope it’s actually the science that provides a realistic answer!

Education needs prioritising also. Years of budget cuts means we now have school buildings that are bursting at the seams. Class sizes at 30 plus. Teachers and pupils without the technology required to work properly from home. September will highlight this even further. I've known how bad it's got over 24 years of teaching, I hope parents can see it too.

Agree 100% (a parent)

I'd much rather schools were open than pubs.

I'd much rather schools were open than pubs.

me too, but people will complain that that has a negative impact on the economy (despite schools being shut also having an impact on the economy).

Schools should be a priority though.

Furlough will only end in October if the virus is under some sort of control. If we need to lock down more, furlough will have to be extended. October is a while away though, an we could, with effort, manage the virus down again.

@OnionString

You don't think a year 10 whose not been taught for over 7 months hasn't had their GCSE chances screwed?

Your the one with your head in the sand. Say there is never a vaccine or effective treatment. You think life should be like this shitfest?

It's only ruined if their parent hasn't taken appropriate responsibility of the education of their child. There were options available. A concerned parent would not have let their child down, one could argue!

I’d prefer schools were prioritised but that furlough ends so that does mean pubs etc open

But I’d also use school funding for cleaning etc not catch up

@TheMumblesofMumbledom

If you had recent experience of being treated by the NHS you would realise that some of them don’t seem to have done much more than an online afternoon course!!! Such is the staffing crisis since the Brexit shambles.

OP - agreed. Most of the population that can actually think for themselves don’t need idiots like Johnson, Hancock and Raab to tell them what to do and will think for themselves and act accordingly.

Cleaning and PPE that is, so they can open ft for everyone

But I’d also use school funding for cleaning etc not catch up

what funding? There is no 'catch up funding'. Schools are having to fund the extra cleaning, PPE etc from their existing, insufficient budget.

Instead of going on about bloody masks and social distancing, get yourself in a position where you are confident that if you get the virus you will be fine. It is not deadly in any way to people who have a good immune system.

Hamstersarse, this is incredibly ignorant. Those with chronic disease cannot boost their immune systems. People with suppressed immune systems and/or on immune suppressant medication can't get themselves into a position to fight a virus like this.

what funding? There is no 'catch up funding

What do you mean. Did it not happen? And yes media used catch up so your ‘ ‘ are pointless. And irritating.

English schools to get £1bn to help pupils catch up after lockdown
Schools will get £650m plus £350m to be spent on tutoring the children who most need it

I would say my preference is for schools over pubs but I am increasingly realise to control the virus through public health alone we probably cannot have either in a meaningful way!

That would seem to be the lesson from Spain that has pubs and no schools and still a major resurgence.

I also agree that another national lockdown wouldn't work. But unless ALL of us are prepared to follow the guidelines, then it is inevitable. The only other option is to let tens of thousands more people die. Do you really want that on your conscience?

Children's education will recover. There is no rule that says that school is the only educational option. Maybe we'll grow a generation that fully recognizes the wealth of other options for intellectual and practical knowledge growth? This would make their future truly amazing.

To all intents and purposes, this is a war. It may not include visible bombs, but we are fighting a war all-the-same. Just because it doesn't appear to directly affect you, doesn't mean you can't do something to help win it. Of course, it's hard. But unless we all pull together our very humanity will be lost for generations to come. Because we will be the society that willingly sacrificed our old and sick because we were too selfish to take a little hardship.

MarshaBradyo

no it hasn't happened. Schools are being asked to use current funding.

There is no rule that says that school is the only educational option

Whilst I fully agree with this statement, I do feel that is virtually impossible for parents to work AND provide suitable educational opportunities for their child when not in a school environment. Certainly where the employment choice of the parents has been made based on education occurring within a school (which is most working parents).

One way to combat it would be for the government to compel organisations to allow and encourage more flexible working, but that isn't happening.

"The likes of which we have not seen in our lifetime? I don't know how old you are, but I'm presuming over 20, and.... AIDS?"

AIDS is like COVID how exactly? You don't need to keep people apart to prevent the spread of AIDS

Instead of going on about bloody masks and social distancing, get yourself in a position where you are confident that if you get the virus you will be fine. It is not deadly in any way to people who have a good immune system

Not sure Dr Xand Van Tulleken would agree, he's not dead no but he now has heart problems after contracting Covid in March. He is a fit 41 (I think) year old. So he may not be dead but he does now have a heart problem.

And thanks for writing me off, I'm on immunosuppressants so I can't 'boost' my immune system. Many millions of us are on these drugs so we can work and function like the rest of you, years ago we'd have been in wheelchairs. So you can get stuffed hamster with your baloney.

It is not deadly in any way to people who have a good immune system

Depends what you mean by "deadly in any way" it is too new of a virus for us to know long term health implications of contracting it but there is significant evidence of long term, serious heart and lung damage over and above what we would see in other similar diseases.

Children have missed 20 week face to face schooling

14 weeks for the majority. We closed 2 weeks before Easter (for most, some might have been 1 week off Easter, others might have been 3) and then 12 weeks after.

It is not deadly in any way to people who have a good immune system

That's really not the case, is it? What about Type 1 diabetics as an example. They are 3 - 4 times more likely to die than someone without type 1. No one who has type 1 can help it. They didn't do anything/or not do something to get it. No one who has type 1 can get rid of it. Medication can be used to control it, keep people alive and the majority of type 1's live long, productive lives as a result. Perhaps we should have a cull of all these 'unhealthy' people who haven't taken responsibility, eh?

I honestly can't understand why lockdown wasn't just for high risk people.

The whole point of the lockdown was to ‘protect the NHS’ because it was an ill prepared shambles.
Now the only difference is that it has had billions of £ of taxpayers money thrown at it in a blind panic by a clueless Government.
So there won’t be another lockdown because the Government can’t use the NHS as an excuse a second time. But whether the NHS will be any better prepared if things get bad is an open question. I hope we don’t have to find out.

RainbowFlowers because hospitals fill up with non-high risk people as well. High risk people are most likely to die with it, but the majority of our ICU beds were taken up by non-high risk people.

Lockdown just delayed the virus, we can’t stop it....
The original plan was to delay it so the NHS could cope.
Not sure what the plan is now, NHS is fine, Nightingale’s closed etc.
There will be no vaccine, we have to carry on and live with covid 19

But whether the NHS will be any better prepared if things get bad is an open question.

Marginally - we already heave processes and protocols in place, our emergency ICUs haven't been dismantled, we have more bank staff and those employed on temporary contracts are still here. We have a few more supplies of PPE than we did, we have a better idea what we are facing and clearer treatment protocols. But the underlying issues of under-staffing, poor management and years of under funding have not been resolved and we are therefore unable to provide the level of service required.

But the underlying issues of under-staffing, poor management and years of under funding have not been resolved and we are therefore unable to provide the level of service required.

Applies to schools too.

Guess what? Years of Tory government and austerity, means public services have been left unable to cope with 'issues'.