Lockdowns will not work now.

[OnionString]

The longer this goes on, the less people are going to abide by the "rules". Our lives and freedom have been taken away from us. Now we are getting back some, only for them to be snatched away. Our children education is ruined. Lockdowns only delay the inevitable. Instead of furlough, bike schemes etc, the government should have been ploughing all that money into recruiting nurses, doctors, carers, building even more temp hospitals to deal with the pandemic. Until the vaccine is ready (assuming the trials are successful) the virus is going nowhere no matter how many ridiculous rules we are told to abide by. Life has to go on for the majority, and yes this means sadly more deaths.

The excess deaths this is from the ONS

By using data for excess deaths, the data takes into account people who may have died from Covid-19 or its complications to longstanding health issues, but were not able to get a coronavirus test before their death.

Note the 'may have'.
Reckless scare-Monday my.

Scaremongering

I agree with your post that getting people to comply with further lockdowns will be hard.

I’m not sure where the government would be getting more doctors and nurses from to help with this pandemic though-they take a long time to train.

Children have missed 14 weeks of school though-not 7 months. 2 weeks before Easter, 5 weeks before May half term and 7 weeks after half term.

I agree OP. This is just mass delusion and mass hysteria. It's not a deadly virus as is touted around all the time. The Black Death was a deadly virus, Spanish flu was a deadly virus. Covid-19 hasn't lived up to the hype.

It has killed the number of people that flu often kills. Bad, yes. But not 'shut down the whole world and limit healthy people's freedoms and opportunities' bad.

I do disagree that the way to deal with this is via more doctors. Over half of the covid deaths have been attributed to obesity. That is just a no brainer - people need to take personal responsibility and get themselves bloody healthy. Why should I, someone who deliberately and consciously, looks after my own health for this very reason (to have good immunity) have to curtail all my freedoms and opportunities because other people can't be bothered to look after their own health.

Instead of going on about bloody masks and social distancing, get yourself in a position where you are confident that if you get the virus you will be fine. It is not deadly in any way to people who have a good immune system.

I have to stay in (I'm Gtr Manchester) again now apparently, and that has made me incredibly bloody angry.

We are only really 4 months into this virus and already they know lots about. New treatments are working and are saving lives. Vaccines are at stage 2 testing. The same number of people will NOT die. We have saved lives by locking down when we did. We could have saved more by being more prepared and locking down earlier but it’s easy to say that in retrospect.

No ones education has been ruined. It may be different but education is lifelong. There is more than one path to take. With guidance and support “education” will be fine.

You need to look at what is truly important in life and actually it’s not money, possessions or GCSE’s. We need to work with what we have been given, teach and show kindness, patience and help each other and when this time in our lives becomes history, have learned from it.

You need to look at what is truly important in life and actually it’s not money, possessions or GCSE’s. We need to work with what we have been given, teach and show kindness, patience and help each other and when this time in our lives becomes history, have learned from it.

You really think kindness will put the food on the table?

I agree it will be difficult to reinforce restrictions now that many people have gone more or less back to normal, but it has to be done. None of us want to see hospitals overwhelmed. Early on in lockdown a friend of mine spent hours on the phone to 111 with breathing difficulties, unable to get through. It was scary knowing you could get ill - with anything, not just covid - and be unable to get help.

I agree kids need education but that doesn't mean we should just put our heads in the sand and carry on like things used to be. IMO we need to think about a shorter school week with extra learning at home, so that class sizes can be smaller.

"It has killed the number of people that flu often kills"

With a lockdown. Not without.

I do agree with the fact that lockdowns are just delaying the inevitable. Unless you have zero cases in the community, opening up again will just result in the resuming of the natural spread of the virus. I don't get why people and politicians are so surprised that this is happening both locally here and in Europe, HK etc. Even Australia where its cases were so low that life was pretty much normal is seeing a spread again as cases werent zero. It will be harder and harder to enforce lockdowns though as people realise its not doing anything other than delaying this. As mentioned in another post, good luck trying to stop families getting together at Xmas, especially after this year.

I just need to get myself in to a possition where I'll be confident that if I get the virus I'll be ok?

So I just need to get rid of the underlying health condition I've had since I was 14? Brilliant, I'm on it don't know why I didn't think of it before to be honest.

"You need to look at what is truly important in life and actually it’s not money, possessions or GCSE’s. We need to work with what we have been given, teach and show kindness, patience and help each other and when this time in our lives becomes history, have learned from it."

Aw, that's nice. Pretty sure we all need money to survive though and the teenagers who have worked hard would like their GCSE's

Lockdown was bearable (for our family) because there was furlough and (some) help for SE.
We dont go out to eat very often anyway and weve had our anniversary and birthdays after restaurants have been open but still not gone out because of the fear of test and trace.
While the average MN think everyone should do their "social duty" and stay in or isolate because they earn 100k and have 6 months wages saved in RL lots of people couldnt afford to isolate for 14 days without pay, esp if they had no symptoms.

Oh get over yourself with your 7 months missed schooling, stop being so hysterical. As others have said it’s 14 weeks, and at gcse level they are old enough to work on their own anyway, no doubt there was online schooling, they are capable of reading extra, looking stuff up etc.

This is a pandemic the like of which the works has not seen in our lifetime. All countries are having to think on their feet, all countries are learning about the virus everyday. I look at it as a life lesson to many who are now having to learn that actually you can’t have it all, that life does throw curve balls and it’s how you react that counts, and how you help others through any crisis that counts.

It’s been really interesting to see just how many people have been selfish, not following the rules, even on here lots of can I just ..... the rise in cases we are seeing now, and the local lockdowns is due to people not following rules, and cases will continue to rise if we don’t. If we hadn’t locked down then hundreds of thousands could have died

Your comment about pushing more money into building more temp hospitals and more doctors, nurses, carer’s etc shows a real naivety. Yes the hospitals could be built, we have proved we could build them, getting enough ventilators is another matter. And you do realise there is already a shortage of nurses and doctors, and that it takes years for both to train, so where would these people be magicked up from? Carer’s as well take time to train.

It’s obvious from your post that you gave had no family or friends die from this, or even be ill. You don’t always just recover and get in with life. I have a friend you caught it and 3 months later still has breathing problems. Look at the articles out there lung scarring and heart problems may remain for many.

We ALL need to follow the rules, however stupid you personally think they may be so collectively we can all help get through this.

In my opinion the same number of people will eventually die except stretched out over a longer period.

This is true, good point OP. It’s also true of wars, natural disasters, and terrorist attacks - we’re all going to die eventually, stretched out over some period of time ...

No ones education has been ruined.

Hmm - depends on the age/stage of education and the school. Mine are at private schools and even they have missed out on practical work, teacher oversight, group work, etc and my friends with Y10 and Y12 DC are quite worried that they'll be sitting their public exams next summer having missed a big chunk of teaching this year. Remote learning, even if it's been good, is not a substitute for what they'd have done at school IMO.

As for DC at schools who've provided no online teaching and very minimal contact with their teachers through the 14 weeks they've missed, I'd be worried if I was a parent of those DC with public exams to sit next year. Their education/futures have probably been compromised and for what? I remain very disappointed that all schools weren't reopened after the May half-term when with summer weather a lot of teaching could've been done outside or with classroom windows wide open. Masks could've been worn in classrooms, if necessary, but there wasn't even an effort to reopen schools at that point.

I thought the area under the "squashed sombero" graph at the beginning of this nightmare was equal to the area under the tall peak sombrero which meant the same number of people would die but spread over time so in more "maneagable" numbers if that's not too crude?

@Chloemol

Oh get over yourself with your 7 months missed schooling, stop being so hysterical. As others have said it’s 14 weeks, and at gcse level they are old enough to work on their own anyway, no doubt there was online schooling, they are capable of reading extra, looking stuff up etc.

This is a pandemic the like of which the works has not seen in our lifetime. All countries are having to think on their feet, all countries are learning about the virus everyday. I look at it as a life lesson to many who are now having to learn that actually you can’t have it all, that life does throw curve balls and it’s how you react that counts, and how you help others through any crisis that counts.

It’s been really interesting to see just how many people have been selfish, not following the rules, even on here lots of can I just ..... the rise in cases we are seeing now, and the local lockdowns is due to people not following rules, and cases will continue to rise if we don’t. If we hadn’t locked down then hundreds of thousands could have died

Your comment about pushing more money into building more temp hospitals and more doctors, nurses, carer’s etc shows a real naivety. Yes the hospitals could be built, we have proved we could build them, getting enough ventilators is another matter. And you do realise there is already a shortage of nurses and doctors, and that it takes years for both to train, so where would these people be magicked up from? Carer’s as well take time to train.

It’s obvious from your post that you gave had no family or friends die from this, or even be ill. You don’t always just recover and get in with life. I have a friend you caught it and 3 months later still has breathing problems. Look at the articles out there lung scarring and heart problems may remain for many.

We ALL need to follow the rules, however stupid you personally think they may be so collectively we can all help get through this.

I just don't know where to begin...

• It is VERY bad for children to not have been able to be around their peers for so long. Look at any rudimentary psychology textbook about development and you will see the importance of play. GCSEs IMO are not the actual issue - everyone is in the same boat (I say that as a parent of a Y10) but the lack of socialising is a huge issue. Huge.

• The likes of which we have not seen in our lifetime? I don't know how old you are, but I'm presuming over 20, and.... AIDS? That has infected 78 million people and killed 33 million people. Covid is a mere dot on the death stats compared to AIDS.

• Selfish? Depends on your definition of selfish. I would not go into a care home right now....and I wouldn't socialise with people who have serious health issues. But really, you want me to stay in for the foreseeable when over 80% of people will be fine if they get it.

• Ventilators killed more people than they saved. They are not an effective treatment for Covid

• Pneumonia can have long lasting health impact, it happens, but people will recover.

Life has to go on for the majority, and yes this means sadly more deaths.

It doesn't just mean more deaths from COVID though, imagine you and your family are on a day out, you get in to an accident and the paramedics can't get to you in time due to the number of people calling for ambulances due to COVID. Or you get to the hospital and you or your child can't get the emergency treatment you need because there are too many people in the hospital because of COVID. Or you are recovering from the accident in hospital and you contract OCIVD because there us so much of it in hospitals.

Excess deaths are a real thing. And the more COVID = more excess deaths.

We cannot go about ours lives normally because services are not available as normal and without masses of additional funding and additional time, to get resources, build hospitals and recruit staff (none of which is happening) a normal level of service will not be available.

@DontCallMeBaby
DontCallMeBaby

In my opinion the same number of people will eventually die except stretched out over a longer period.

This is true, good point OP. It’s also true of wars, natural disasters, and terrorist attacks - we’re all going to die eventually, stretched out over some period of time ...

Obviously I meant the same number will die of Covid, but hey keep going with your smug, hilarious replies.

@Mothermorph

I thought the area under the "squashed sombero" graph at the beginning of this nightmare was equal to the area under the tall peak sombrero which meant the same number of people would die but spread over time so in more "maneagable" numbers if that's not too crude?

The overall death rate for the past 5 weeks has been below average.

It will be interesting to see how that plays out as the year goes on. There are only so many people who can die of this disease.

Crude. But true.

@dotdashdashdash

Life has to go on for the majority, and yes this means sadly more deaths.

It doesn't just mean more deaths from COVID though, imagine you and your family are on a day out, you get in to an accident and the paramedics can't get to you in time due to the number of people calling for ambulances due to COVID. Or you get to the hospital and you or your child can't get the emergency treatment you need because there are too many people in the hospital because of COVID. Or you are recovering from the accident in hospital and you contract OCIVD because there us so much of it in hospitals.

Excess deaths are a real thing. And the more COVID = more excess deaths.

We cannot go about ours lives normally because services are not available as normal and without masses of additional funding and additional time, to get resources, build hospitals and recruit staff (none of which is happening) a normal level of service will not be available.

And the estimate is that lockdown itself has caused nearly 20,000 excess deaths?

- Ventilators killed more people than they saved. They are not an effective treatment for Covid

As an ICU doctor during COIVD, I can categorically say that this is not true. Firstly, they aren't a treatment at all, they are a method of keeping people oxygenated where there is not other option, whilst the person is under treatment.

To be put on a ventilator you have to be really, really ill to begin with. Ventilators are awful things and really need to be avoided where possible - they do long term damage to lungs, but if you cannot breath independently, they are your ONLY hope of survival. They are not used lightly. We are learning new things about COVID daily and it isn't the respiratory infection we first believed BUT it does affect the lungs and does prevent sufficient oxygenation, in some cases making ventilation necessary (to prevent hypoxia). Being on a ventilator doe snot mean you will not die from COVID - it attacks other organs (hence current thinking that it is a blood vessel disease) and you die from organ failure.

hamstersars

And how many excess deaths would there have been if there had been no lockdown? We can only estimate but the estimation is more based on the info we have from countries which haven't locked down.

Lockdowns are only delaying the inevitable if you believe a vaccine won’t be developed and that treatments won’t improve. The latter has already been proven wrong and all the actual experts believe we will have an effective vaccine sooner rather than later.

i honestly dont know the answer but people wont abide by this new one inparticular

dont go inside another household?-people were already doing this way before we were allowed to anyway