School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

I think all children should be going back part time with remote learning to do on the days they are not in school.
Then the government should be putting. money into rapidly developed childcare centres where children could go to be in small bubbles if parents need to work on days the children are not in school. Carers in these centres would help children to complete their remote school learning and do other activities vwith them.

Ok thanks, so is it the case that even if a headteacher is supportive of keeping the DC's at home the LEA will ultimately chase you up/issue fines?

[quote CallmeAngelina]**@lifeafter50: "Will not wear a mask in school and will.not work if the children are allowed to."

What, so doesn't that make you one of the lazy, shyster teachers you've been criticising throughout all these threads?

"If people choose not to work in the reality of the environment they be need to look for alternative jobs, not try to use fear-mongering to get things the way they have decided suits them."
That'll be you then?[/quote]
I have a strong feeling @lifeafter50 is a teacher in an independent school. Easy to spout that nonsense when you know damn well you won't be stuck in a classroom with 30 students and mixed in a bubble of 250 all day. Have some empathy for your state school colleagues please.

[quote CallmeAngelina]**@lifeafter50: "Will not wear a mask in school and will.not work if the children are allowed to."

What, so doesn't that make you one of the lazy, shyster teachers you've been criticising throughout all these threads?

"If people choose not to work in the reality of the environment they be need to look for alternative jobs, not try to use fear-mongering to get things the way they have decided suits them."
That'll be you then?[/quote]
Just read about 4 pages wondering how no one noticed that angelina but you did.

She will refuse to teach if children are even allowed by choice to wear a mask. That is some seriously extreme ideology holding.

She doesn’t want kids allowed to wear masks even if they want to which some will in the hopes In protection of vulnerable family members or to feel safer.

She will refuse to teach them.

Do hope she’s informed her head so they know to start recruiting for her role along with all the “known malingerers” she claims they already know about.

Presumably she can be fired for refusing to teach a child with a mask. How bizarre when the claim is that they are thinking of the children that she will refuse to teach if any of them wear masks

Why wouldn't you teach a child wearing a mask if it is their choice to do so? Does she feel the same about head coverings? Eye patches? Are glasses much different to visors?

I think at least 10yo understand that to gwt something you want you might need to do something you dont want to so much.

• holidays wear a mask on a plane then the coach etc so several hours
• zoo wear a mask to go through the shop to get in get nice zoo trip
• shopping wear a mask to get nice food or clothes
• park play - use hand sanitiser
• swimming go dressed ready then maybe change in the car?
• go to school wash hands wear a mask cover coughs and sneezes tell someone if you feel unwell- get an education and play with your friends. Dont do it schools shut by oct half term.

Do you know

• if kids are so depressed being at home they will jump at the chance of going in even in masks
• i hate it when people say this sort of thing but it is pretty ungrateful when other kids in the world dont get an education, they have to walk miles to get it. When in uk there would be people saying well i cant wear a mask to sit on my arse and be transported to where i need to go. Kids in many other countries are wearing masks to get an education i saw some in india.

In history we will look as crazy as USA. The books saying well there was france/italy etc with full classes all year no outbreaks wearing masks as were the Asian countries. England didnt like the thought of masks on children and had a huge outbreak lots of parents /hcp/elderly died even today there are people with xyz conditions caused by it.

When watching a documentary on the 1919? Pandemic the uk knew it was bad but chose not to do anything because of the war despite advice from drs.

Having parents incl KW having to isolate all the time will affect the economy. If my dc1 bubble did pop there are 2 teachers a dr etc as parents just in one class. Likewise if it's just a cold going around. Like dominoes we will all be off including the whole class if a teacher gets a cough even if it's not covid.
It can be days/weeks between family members getting coughs too so just when you have received dc1 results as negative dc2 gets a cough.

Again, people lumping primary and secondary in together! Completely different settings, needs and problems!
Primary can probably try to go back full time. Not ideal but probably manageable. Small enough 'bubbles', and yes, meets the childcare need.
Secondary cannot bubble, much bigger, specialist subjects, option subjects, few TAs, children physiologically adult, childcare less of an issue. Week on, week off would solve almost all problems. Childcare in off weeks for y7 if wanted. Vulnerable children would not be off the radar for long, online learning could be monitored.
People on these threads should be banned from just saying "school". Primary or secondary.

@labyrinthloafer - teacher references can be damning - I have seen them. It is not a case if writing she is a jolly nice person who turns up on time. As you know, being a teacher, referenced are often a couple of pages long with questions against which the referee had to give judgements again eg classroom management with a rating of 1 - 5 etc. They take a while to complete

@CallmeAngelina

Head recommends, LA issues. I'm not sure they "recommend." More likely the absence code on the register flags up the issue and it has to be declared.

My understanding is that not every unauthorized absence gets passed for fines. The head has discretion?

No matter how you do it, it will be a disaster for some kids. We are in Austria and schools were opened again in May.

We had what is probably the best scenario:

Our school is semi-private. During lockdown, fulltime online school was provided and when it eased, kids attended 50-50 and had a full schedule provided online on the other days including live classes and chat (all kids at our school have an ipad, purchased by the parents). Each class had a TA on call so the kids at home could call with questions and they could call each other on hangouts to discuss their work.

It was a total disaster for my kids. They struggled to remember instructions and without the input from the teacher they get in a live setting, were unable to focus and both fell way behind.

this isn't the school's fault. It is just that this medium doesn't work for my kids. Other kids in the class loved it and did amazingly well.

We have decided to homeschool for the next year. I am giving up my job and we will take a financial hit, but I really think that school closures and a greater reliance on distance learning is going to be the norm for this year at least and I can't watch my kids fail and totally lose their love of learning anymore.

I don't know what the answer is, but online learning will be really tough for kids who find it hard to focus or find internal motivation. Part-time school will be tough for kids who need stability and routine and full time school for all is likely to only happen for a short period of time before the T rate is too high and they have to close again or there are not enough teachers to staff them.

There are definitely no easy answers, and nobody is going to find them burying their head in the sand.

@cantkeepawayforever I think you may have assumed that I think the measures being taken will be effective. I didn't say that, I just listed the measures they're taking.

I actually think that the measures are well meaning but ineffective. For example, the school has said that pupils must organise themselves into 'year group bubbles' on transport.

The fact that one of my DDs has her 'home zone' in a different building to her toilets, and that they are allocating 5 minutes at the beginning of the lesson for children to use the toilet and wash their hands, is boggling. They are only permitted to go one at a time, and they have to leave one block, walk to another block, go upstairs, use the toilet and return to their home block before the next child can go....

It's all absurd, but they're trying.

@CallmeAngelina 👏👏👏

@IloveJKRowling

Arguably children aren't going to wear them properly and that could hurt somebody.

How could a cloth mask "hurt" someone. The worst case is the same as no masks surely? So worth a try?

Except it's not at all is it? Christ.

So have those of you who want part time schooling considered how many people children will be mixing with whilst not at school?

Or are you imagining the ideal situation where they're happily inside with both parents wfh? Because that won't be the reality for most. They'll be with relatives, friends, childminders and so on and so on.

Is that really less of an infection risk than the same 30 children together all week?

I have tween/teen kids. They love face masks as do their peers! If you look at the trendy shops they’re all add ons at checkout. From my experience kids in the main would love the ability to express some individuality at school via a patterned mask. It’s adults who have the issue with masks in the main (in the U.K. 🙄).

Is that really less of an infection risk than the same 30 children together all week?

Again this is only focusing on Primary schools, what about secondary schools?

@Ickabog

Is that really less of an infection risk than the same 30 children together all week?

Again this is only focusing on Primary schools, what about secondary schools?

Sorry I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to ask a question only about primary?

I don't what about secondary schools. I'm not saying I've got the magic solution. I'm simply asking a question.

Sorry I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to ask a question only about primary?

You can ask any questions you like. I was just pointing out that your post didn't take into account secondary schools. I think it's important to consider both when discussing part time schooling, as it would reduce the risk for secondary aged students.

I'll also add that many primary schools won't be groups of 30. Quite a few will be in year group bubbles of 60 or 90.

For me it would be the difference between 30 kids plus b/a 50% vs current plans 60+30+ 100% b/a clubs (pretty much school of 400 plus). So the contacts would be significantly less. Although as you say CM may bump it up a lot but they could anyway and be 400 and CM kids.
Rates suresly have to stay below maybe 3k for it to have a chance of staying out of secondary schools.
Work out how many people the kids will have contact with. With it spreading on average 5d.

It is difficult. I understand that children need education. I know that, for the majority, that need will be best served by attending school. At the same time, if you invited me to attend a gathering of 30, 60, 90 or 300 (in the case of secondary schools), I'd politely decline and you'd think I was eminently sensible.

@Ickabog

Sorry I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to ask a question only about primary?

You can ask any questions you like. I was just pointing out that your post didn't take into account secondary schools. I think it's important to consider both when discussing part time schooling, as it would reduce the risk for secondary aged students.

I'll also add that many primary schools won't be groups of 30. Quite a few will be in year group bubbles of 60 or 90.

Re primary schools the point still stands.

Is it less risky to let them essentially do wtf they like with whoever the fuck they like for half the week, or more risky?

Again I don't have the magic answer for secondaries so..

So have those of you who want part time schooling considered how many people children will be mixing with whilst not at school?

The question for those who want full time school is who will have to be at home to look after children - at short notice - who are sent home from school because they are ill, the bubble bursts, the school is short of teachers, the school is closed by OPublic health or there is a local lockdown?

Eventually (after a very long and tortuous road) common sense will prevail. Unless there’s a vaccine/therapeutic breakthrough imminently, kids will eventually be wearing face coverings at school, class sizes will reduce as a result of part time learning, in a few months.

Unfortunately it may well take the death/serious illness of a number of teachers/staff before the bleeding bloody obvious is adhered to.

It makes me so angry. Parents can jump up and down saying “it’s not fair etc etc, I deserve this etc etc.” It isn’t fair no, but then global pandemics aren’t!! There will be inequalities, people/kids will suffer. Nature of the beast. Christ is it worth someone dying for, to give parents what they demand, particularly when science is making breakthroughs week by week. No. Give science a chance to catch up. I feel for disadvantaged kids and those with public exams looming. They should be prioritised, the rest moaning on here in most instances could pick up some of the slack at evenings/weekends with their kids educations if they could be arsed to, there’s enough on line (with answers)!! Enough to be equal to the substitute teacher their kids will likely have at school in any event!! As for the mental health and social side, let them see their friends anyway (and yes this is far safer than being stuck in an unventilated room for 6-8 hours a day with a huge number of kids 🙄)

@cantkeepawayforever

So have those of you who want part time schooling considered how many people children will be mixing with whilst not at school?

The question for those who want full time school is who will have to be at home to look after children - at short notice - who are sent home from school because they are ill, the bubble bursts, the school is short of teachers, the school is closed by OPublic health or there is a local lockdown?

The same person who would have to be at home if schools open only part time?

What do you think we'll do with our children the rest of the week they're not in school?

So you've got 2 or 3 days to find childcare a week, every single week or perhaps 2 weeks maybe once, twice... Perhaps maybe even never. A couple of days for a test?

I think the first is less realistic than that second.

Is it less risky to let them essentially do wtf they like with whoever the fuck they like for half the week, or more risky?

If part time schooling for September was announced today then parents / carers could come up with a plan for where their child would be on the days they're not in school. As it is sending children back as normal in September means they will end up making ad hoc, last minute arrangements when schools close, or their child needs to isolate.

Again I don't have the magic answer for secondaries so..

No one has a magic answer, as there isn't just one answer to the questions being asked. That doesn't mean you can just ignore Secondary schools.