School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

But there’s no evidence teaching staff were in the highest risk occupations if you look at the ONS data for peak deaths, 3 weeks after lockdown in the U.K. started.

Very few staff were at work at that point, due to lockdown? Those who were at work were with very tiny numbers of socially distanced pupils.

Please don't say the risk to healthy people is minimum!! We don't know yet the long term affects of Covid. I had it months ago and still can't exercise. A colleague has just had a heart attack and they think she MAY have had asymptomatic covid. I'm not trying to sound dramatic but we just don't know yet.

@Kitcat122

Please don't say the risk to healthy people is minimum!! We don't know yet the long term affects of Covid. I had it months ago and still can't exercise. A colleague has just had a heart attack and they think she MAY have had asymptomatic covid. I'm not trying to sound dramatic but we just don't know yet.

for you and your colleague.

Agree wholeheartedly with your message, some very concerning impacts.

@cantkeepawayforever

But there’s no evidence teaching staff were in the highest risk occupations if you look at the ONS data for peak deaths, 3 weeks after lockdown in the U.K. started.

Very few staff were at work at that point, due to lockdown? Those who were at work were with very tiny numbers of socially distanced pupils.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-19/covid-s-spread-in-schools-is-questioned-in-latest-nordic-study

Sweden found no additional risks to teachers as well. Link in article.

@Bluewavescrashing

Teachers resigning in July have to work their notice until January so they can't leave anyway.

What actually happens of people refuse to work their notice?

They don't go to prison and they don't get sued and they don't get dragged in. So what happens?

They won't get a reference

They won't get paid

They might struggle to get a new job

All pretty big problems.

The thinking on this is so woolly.

This is not staff lives vs quality education.

This is danger to staff AND serious disruption to learning.

There is a clear case to change things in Sept so that the learning is consistent and well developed.

What gives away campaigners on this subject is that they have said a word about school funding. All they are after is shoving students back into school without masks and social distancing, no matter what the infection rate is at that point. I think that is very telling about what their main priority is.

Those who are worried about how we are going to provide a good, consistent curriculum during a pandemic, so that students are still making progress are considering the disruptive effect of outbreaks and teacher shortages. Which is why everyone I’ve spoken to IRL is talking about blended learning.

To provide no online support to students is short sighted magical thinking that is based on the fairytale that this all over and that all children can safely go back to school.

People who are really worried about the education side and understand how that runs know that full time in Sept is a disaster waiting to happen.

@Jrobhatch29

Difference between primary and secondary. High schools in Sweden have been closed.

Sweden's schools were not all open, and class sizes are significantly smaller. When comparing any school system with what might happen in the uk, you need to ask:

• Age?
• Numbers per class?
• Numbers per group - ie were class sizes reduced or on a rota?
• Any social distancing - room size compared with numbers?
• Any other protective equipment - masks, visors for teachers, additional hand-washing stations?
• Community transmission at the time?

Unfortunately, except in Israel and to a certain extent Australia (80 school outbreaks and counting), school systems have been too different, or Covid-safe arrangements so comprehensive, that the situation isn't comparable.

Jrobhatch that article is only about primary teachers though.

Everyone is taking some level of risk now. I live with a key worker - should they have not gone to work due to risks? I’m fine in secondaries with all wearing masks. But there’s no evidence teaching staff were in the highest risk occupations if you look at the ONS data for peak deaths, 3 weeks after lockdown in the U.K. started.

Currently education settings are the second highest group of infection, as has been said many, many times on MN. So your information is out of date. Would your key worker go to work with no PPE, I wonder?

You may be fine with secondary children wearing masks but the government isn't. Talk to them about it. If enough parents kick up a fuss they may listen, they sure as hell aren't listening to teachers.

@Bluewavescrashing

Teachers resigning in July have to work their notice until January so they can't leave anyway.

Surely you’d just go to the doctors and sign off with stress

Pretty believable at the moment

As someone who is slightly hard of hearing, masks are an issue for learning.

@Bluewavescrashing

They won't get a reference

They won't get paid

They might struggle to get a new job

All pretty big problems.

They can't be refused a reference, and the reference is legally required to be honest.

No one gets paid if not in work, obviously.

With a national teacher shortage, I think most can get a job again. People get re-employed after being fired!

Not ideal perhaps - but better than risking health.

Labyrinth you may have said but are you a teacher, will you resign?

It seems obvious to
A) allow those that want to keep educating at home to do so and be able to keep their place (so long as no safeguarding concerns)
B) allow all families to form bubbles not just single parents to enable childcare if/when schools close
C) give schools a decent budget and proper technical support for better online teaching
D) work out a plan for if cases rise in an area for example telling parents in advance that they would be in group A which means they would be in school Mon & Tues (meaning some parents could try to negotiate home working Thursday & Friday in advance in case needed)
E) ensure that parents get financial support or at the very least protection from being fired if their child’s bubble/school closes.

@Dancingdeer77

An excellent set of suggestions. I think people have been suggesting something similar on threads for 4 months.

But there is a hardcore of U4T that don’t want to hear anything other than ‘full time will work’.

Does anyone know who is responsible for issuing attendance fines? Is it the LEA or individual school head teachers?

@lifeafter50: "Will not wear a mask in school and will.not work if the children are allowed to."

What, so doesn't that make you one of the lazy, shyster teachers you've been criticising throughout all these threads?

"If people choose not to work in the reality of the environment they be need to look for alternative jobs, not try to use fear-mongering to get things the way they have decided suits them."
That'll be you then?

@StaffAssociationRepresentative No all parents think like that. Most of us appreciate how hard your jobs are and for piss poor pay considering the graft and time you have to put in.

@Dancingdeer77

It seems obvious to A) allow those that want to keep educating at home to do so and be able to keep their place (so long as no safeguarding concerns) B) allow all families to form bubbles not just single parents to enable childcare if/when schools close C) give schools a decent budget and proper technical support for better online teaching D) work out a plan for if cases rise in an area for example telling parents in advance that they would be in group A which means they would be in school Mon & Tues (meaning some parents could try to negotiate home working Thursday & Friday in advance in case needed) E) ensure that parents get financial support or at the very least protection from being fired if their child’s bubble/school closes.

Yes, all those are very sensible suggestions.

None of them are being proposed by the government though.

'muzzle the filthy, dangerous kids'

Its interesting that those claiming to have 'sane' 'calm' views are the ones that are using such ridiculous language to paint anyone with a different view in a bad light,

@MarshaBradyo

Labyrinth you may have said but are you a teacher, will you resign?

I'm a mystery

@Beebityboo

Does anyone know who is responsible for issuing attendance fines? Is it the LEA or individual school head teachers?

Head recommends, LA issues.

Head recommends, LA issues.
I'm not sure they "recommend." More likely the absence code on the register flags up the issue and it has to be declared.