School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

Im hoping minimum gov will change it to max of 30 at primary rather than year groups.
All the out of school clubs look like they are starting too and parties.

Presumably the vast majority of school outbreaks were primary though. I dont think i saw anything about secondaries.

It's only a few weeks till Leicester schools go back

@Ickabog

Is it less risky to let them essentially do wtf they like with whoever the fuck they like for half the week, or more risky?

If part time schooling for September was announced today then parents / carers could come up with a plan for where their child would be on the days they're not in school. As it is sending children back as normal in September means they will end up making ad hoc, last minute arrangements when schools close, or their child needs to isolate.

Again I don't have the magic answer for secondaries so..

No one has a magic answer, as there isn't just one answer to the questions being asked. That doesn't mean you can just ignore Secondary schools.

Would they? Can you tell me how you plan to do that when both parents need to work full time in order to pay the bills? Because lots of people will be wondering that right now.

If they're in school FT yes there's a chance they'll have to have time off but it's just that, a chance. Not even a massive one.

I can ignore what I like, I'm posting on an internet forum, I'm not Boris Johnson giving a press conference.

If they're in school FT yes there's a chance they'll have to have time off but it's just that, a chance. Not even a massive one.

One parent, no in school cases for a whole term here. I’m ok with those numbers to go with ft schooling.

Is that really less of an infection risk than the same 30 children together all week?
It is for the teacher, who will be able to social distance more effectively with only half of the pupils in class.

What do you think we'll do with our children the rest of the week they're not in school?
Not the teacher’s problem. Their priority is keeping themselves safe in their workplace, not ensuring that your kids are looked after

Pineapple do you have school age dc?

@PineappleSquosh

Is that really less of an infection risk than the same 30 children together all week? It is for the teacher, who will be able to social distance more effectively with only half of the pupils in class.

What do you think we'll do with our children the rest of the week they're not in school?
Not the teacher’s problem. Their priority is keeping themselves safe in their workplace, not ensuring that your kids are looked after

So the teacher would be happier coming into close contact with 15 children who have perhaps, twice or three times more contacts than a class of 30?

Makes no sense to me. You're gonna get close to kids in primary no matter how many or how few of them there are.

Pineapple do you have school age dc?
Nope. I am an ex teacher though. My employer wanted me to put the needs of parents like you ahead of my own personal health and wellbeing. Unsurprisingly I said no.

@PineappleSquosh

Pineapple do you have school age dc? Nope. I am an ex teacher though. My employer wanted me to put the needs of parents like you ahead of my own personal health and wellbeing. Unsurprisingly I said no.

Or perhaps they just wanted you to do your job?

And it's not the needs of parents it's the needs of children first and foremost but you seem to have forgotten about them.

put the needs of parents like you

Ha at that.

Well your choice. Are you unemployed now?

I think most advocating for blended learning are talking about secondary.

For primary most are saying full time is viable but max of class bubbles and funding for proper cleaning etc.

I don’t know if it’s deliberate or accidental to infer secondary teachers talking about blended learning are suggesting leaving 8yos on the streets.

If secondary could be blended so as to avoid 1500 kids twice a day on buses, trains etc and society maintained proper sd, masks in public etc and primary had max of 30 in a bubble then that might be the best chance of community spread low enough to keep schools open.

it's the needs of children first and foremost

This is the difficulty here. What is the equation? How much face to face education weighed in the balance with how much teacher and community illness and death?

For primary, there is an additional childcare factor, but I am not sure it is fair to teachers to put that in the balance against teacher illness and death? Perhaps the need for childcare to allow economic activity by parents of primary age DC should be weighed in the balance by the government against the money needed to actually make schools significantly safer?

@TheHoneyBadger

I think most advocating for blended learning are talking about secondary.

For primary most are saying full time is viable but max of class bubbles and funding for proper cleaning etc.

I don’t know if it’s deliberate or accidental to infer secondary teachers talking about blended learning are suggesting leaving 8yos on the streets.

If secondary could be blended so as to avoid 1500 kids twice a day on buses, trains etc and society maintained proper sd, masks in public etc and primary had max of 30 in a bubble then that might be the best chance of community spread low enough to keep schools open.

For primaries that's fair enough. I'd want them cleaned more on a normal day tbh. I don't want to catch norovirus or anything else tbh.

I think blended learning could work for secondaries but I think there's a lot of room for many kids to fall behind...

the money needed to actually make schools significantly safer

What £1bn could have done. Maybe they can bung another £1bn over for cleaning.

I really do want ft for secondary, probably even more than primary tbh. Pt learning has been woeful.

@cantkeepawayforever

it's the needs of children first and foremost

This is the difficulty here. What is the equation? How much face to face education weighed in the balance with how much teacher and community illness and death?

For primary, there is an additional childcare factor, but I am not sure it is fair to teachers to put that in the balance against teacher illness and death? Perhaps the need for childcare to allow economic activity by parents of primary age DC should be weighed in the balance by the government against the money needed to actually make schools significantly safer?

I thought school wasn't child care??

So do we not have to weigh up education with "teacher illness and death" (and we obviously have no idea how many teachers will get Ill or die)

One parent, no in school cases for a whole term here. I’m ok with those numbers to go with ft schooling.

Marsha, was that with everyone in school? And with the rest of society opening up as well? Or was it the maximum of 50% of children in primary 9often much less) and 1/14th of children in secondary?

The balance of risks of full time vs part time depend very much on where you live and what you think the chances of your particular school closing down will be. I cannot imagine that in Leicester, Blackburn etc schools will open at all, and if they do open for a short period they will close quickly. Meanwhile in other areas, it may currently seem likely that your school will have a chance of opening for a significant period.

Cases locally - and I am in a currently low risk area - have increased significantly this week and are the highest for a couple of months, including the highest day since not long past the peak. That's just with increased mobility and slightly loosened restrictions, including travel. If it follows this trajectory, my supposedly 'safe' area, where we managed to open the school to all children from priority years + keyworkers, will very rapidly move towards a situation where regular closures are inevitable once children are mixing in schools.

Teachers are responsible for children’s education and well being yes. We’re not responsible for you being able to get to work but when schools are open of course they facilitate that. When schools cannot be open as usual due to eg a public health crisis then it is the politicians you need to ask how workers are going to have their childcare needs met. I know that is taken as callous but it’s just the facts.

We are educators. When it is unsafe for schools to be open as usual it remains our responsibility to provide education but not childcare. However given the emergency we have dug in and done that anyway with, in our school, all teachers doing online education provision and volunteer teachers also coming into school to look after the most vulnerable kids and those of key workers who couldn’t be spared from work.

Yet all your ire is directed at us. We didn’t close schools. A pandemic did.

@PineappleSquosh

Is that really less of an infection risk than the same 30 children together all week? It is for the teacher, who will be able to social distance more effectively with only half of the pupils in class.

What do you think we'll do with our children the rest of the week they're not in school?
Not the teacher’s problem. Their priority is keeping themselves safe in their workplace, not ensuring that your kids are looked after

Really? I think you will find teachers have a duty of care towards their class!

Trust, no, we have to weigh up the extra benefit to children of education being delivered face to face (as opposed to a mixture of online and face to face) against additional teacher illness and death.

I only introduced childcare because parents on these threads always do - they ask how parents are expected to work, and how children are to be cared for, if they are not in school. They want me, as a teacher, to take that into account when weighing up the risks, when of course - as you seem to agree - it is unreasonable to be asked to do so.

I think you will find teachers have a duty of care towards their class!

It depends what you mean. Yes, I have a duty to report safeguarding concerns about a child that arise due to their situation outside school. No, I do not have to arrange safe childcare for the children in my class when I am not teaching them.

School isn't childcare. If it were, it would fit with 'normal' working hours. We've chosen as a society to make childcare an element of school.

Blended learning is not the learning that has been going on until now. If it was agreed that we were going in that direction in advance, it could have been planned for well.

If it was agreed that we were going in that direction in advance, it could have been planned for well.

Exactly. That is the frustration. I am spending time rearranging my classroom, planning for in-school lessons that may never happen, writing handwashing rotas and installing coat pegs outside, when I could be planning proper blended learning IF I was told that was what was needed.

@cantkeepawayforever

Trust, no, we have to weigh up the extra benefit to children of education being delivered face to face (as opposed to a mixture of online and face to face) against additional teacher illness and death.

I only introduced childcare because parents on these threads always do - they ask how parents are expected to work, and how children are to be cared for, if they are not in school. They want me, as a teacher, to take that into account when weighing up the risks, when of course - as you seem to agree - it is unreasonable to be asked to do so.

It's quite clear that education doesn't really work "virtually" though isn't it?

You're not providing the same standard of education virtually, because you can't guarantee there's someone at home to support it.

Cant primary yes, but no cases in secondary class (I just had school admin confirm for former rather than relying on ds), and your question made me google and I’m really surprised at the chart. It was high and then had flatlined. Amazing. And no where near other boroughs. So maybe one parent makes sense.

LAs are now in charge of lockdowns so hopefully this will move away from national closure.

it's the needs of children first and foremost

Oh no, I’m not a martyr for your cause and you don’t get to decide that for me. I’m an employee with rights and my employer has a duty of care towards me.