School re-opening under threat

[jomartin281271]

Headline in the London Evening Standard today that this new surge could threaten re-opening of schools. I'm not surprised. The government know that it's not safe to open schools under their current guidance. Cramming children, teachers and admin staff into those tiny spaces could cause a catastrophe. I feel sorry for teachers. Most of them are really committed to the job and their lives are being put at risk. Scary times.
www.standard.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-second-wave-schools-september-a4511516.html

@Devlesko

I don't see why school can't just be online and those that want childcare can pay childminders. It's not rocket science. The childminders could assist with schoolwork.

I am a childminder - not a teacher.

My own Ds ( year 8) has had to struggle with school work with2/3 toddlers it absolutely is not an environment for learning.

I am desperate for my children to get back to school. Working from home with them around has been very tough. I have at times felt overwhelmed and that I am failing both children and employer. I would be grateful for part-time school, making use of local sports halls and village halls etc, getting help from gap year students..... Any outside box thinking. For me this would be better than a month back in classes of 30 and then deciding its not working, and me trying to work and school again. Just two or three days a week school days would make the world of difference.

@Devlesko where are these millions of childminders coming from? And the money for parents to pay them who didn’t anticipate that? You can’t claim ‘school isn’t childcare’ when historically they have NEVER had to pay for full time childcare from age 4+

The government would have been better concentrating on requirements for lessons to be taught live or recorded online for a certain amount of hours a day, perhaps with some time in school with a reduced capacity.
I have worked full time and tried to keep ds1 on track for his GCSEs next year. That has been massively imperfect. These children are being failed by the system. How can they do exams as usual having missed months of school? A different plan is needed. That said I dont think the solution is for them to go back to school ful time in classes of 30.
There should have been far more work on this and less concentration on opening the bloody pubs, which I walk by and see a complete lack of social distancing. It's a complete shit show and failure of our children.

[quote Shitfuckoh]@TrustTheGeneGenie because some of the many thousands who have already died with this virus in our country will have left children without a parent. To respond as you did was dreadful. The be kind thing got old fast eh[/quote]
Right but how many of them were young otherwise healthy teachers?

Yes, people have died, it's awful, it's still not horrible to ask what the chances are. It's good to be informed isn't it?

I mean if it was super high risk you'd want parents to know wouldn't you? To prove your point?

Hairy, exactly. Starting off with part-time school (I would suggest 1 week on / 1 week off for secondary and half week rotations for primary, who I think would benefit from a shorter school / home / school cycle) would mean that we could proceed witjh some assurance of maintaining that.

If it worked, we could then move towards full time school for increasing numbers of year groups, with close monitoring all the time.

Chaotic opening and closing is in nobody's interests.

@ohthegoats

That's hardly surprising is it?

I don't know. People keep telling me that children don't transmit this thing, so for them it should be surprising.

But all we know is that they're outbreaks. They could be teachers, they could be children who've caught it. No proof they are children passing it on, so no, not surprising at all.

Trust, why is there an assumption that teachers are young?

Many teachers, and many, many support staff in schools are in age groups considered higher risk from Covid. The year group I teach in - 3 teachers and 3.5 TAs - would be down to a single teacher if you take out the 50+ age group.

It’s an odd situation because it’s not just about the advantaged (key worker kids and years R 1 and 6), and the disadvantaged (no access to IT, chaotic home life). There must be a huge cohort of the hidden disadvantaged - primary kids who’ve been provided with resources by the school, but no way of actually being taught it - as parents both working 9-6pm to keep their jobs and pay the mortgage etc. So they give up and play roblox. Parent attempts to help and explain at 8pm when everyone’s exhausted and ratty, which leads to tears (everyones) and absolutely no constructive progress is made. Repeat as nauseum.

Or is it just me?

I would fall in to this category. With the best will in the world I can’t do both simultaneously.

@cantkeepawayforever

Trust, why is there an assumption that teachers are young?

Many teachers, and many, many support staff in schools are in age groups considered higher risk from Covid. The year group I teach in - 3 teachers and 3.5 TAs - would be down to a single teacher if you take out the 50+ age group.

I'm assuming the ones with very young children are young, not that all teachers are young.

Even at 50 plus your chances of dying of Corona are very small.

@TrustTheGeneGenie I'm not a teacher. I'm a parent. Just a parent who wants schools to be safe for everyone to return to, pupils and staff.

It's not even so much the deaths now, it's the fact that this virus isn't just a 1/2 week thing and you're all better. It seems like it has weeks/months long effects without even getting in to the cardic damage & blood clots side of things.

As a single parent, if I was to get the virus, who would look after my 3 children? Who would I have to put at risk of catching it, to ensure they stay healthy & safe whilst I'm lethargic, struggling to breath or even just lacking the energy to run after my almost 3YO whilst he's trying to throw himself from a massive height?

These are thoughts single parents have whenever they become unwell, but especially when it's something as new as this virus. Which is the point I was making earlier in my reply saying your response was disgusting. Not because it was nasty. It was just unthoughtful, you didn't take in to account how the person who typed it would be feeling.

Asking teachers & all school staff to put themselves in this position, when everywhere else in the country is returning to COVID safe environments is.. I don't even have the words. It's quite frankly fucking crazy.

Whoever made the wet fish comment, even if it’s been deleted, I love you for it It was a little bit of light in the darkness. May common sense and compassion always exist and speak out however much of a minority concern they become.

I'm 52, fit and healthy (ish) and I'm really nervous about September.

[quote Shitfuckoh]@TrustTheGeneGenie I'm not a teacher. I'm a parent. Just a parent who wants schools to be safe for everyone to return to, pupils and staff.

It's not even so much the deaths now, it's the fact that this virus isn't just a 1/2 week thing and you're all better. It seems like it has weeks/months long effects without even getting in to the cardic damage & blood clots side of things.

As a single parent, if I was to get the virus, who would look after my 3 children? Who would I have to put at risk of catching it, to ensure they stay healthy & safe whilst I'm lethargic, struggling to breath or even just lacking the energy to run after my almost 3YO whilst he's trying to throw himself from a massive height?

These are thoughts single parents have whenever they become unwell, but especially when it's something as new as this virus. Which is the point I was making earlier in my reply saying your response was disgusting. Not because it was nasty. It was just unthoughtful, you didn't take in to account how the person who typed it would be feeling.

Asking teachers & all school staff to put themselves in this position, when everywhere else in the country is returning to COVID safe environments is.. I don't even have the words. It's quite frankly fucking crazy.[/quote]
It's not just teachers and school staff at risk though is it? Yes they're at some risk. So are most people. There is no evidence that children transmit to adults is there?

Also if you think covid save = 0 transmission risk you're mistaken.

Equally I don't know what would happen to your children and you should make decisions based on your own circumstances. Don't send them to school if you feel you're at particular risk.

That decision won't suit everyone though.

Lemons,

NOBODY - teachers included - is saying that it is better for schools to be closed.

The Government's solution is to throw open the schools willy nilly, without any adequate infection control, and then cross their fingers. The result for many children will be a chaotic mixture of in-school teaching - partly by their own teachers, by a series of cover staff if the teachers are ill - and unscheduled home learning.

The solution being suggested is a better plan for schools, which would involve a planned and carefully-monitored combination of in-school teaching and online learning, with good in-school infection control.

I'm not even that bothered about the actual dying. Me getting really ill and not being able to work any more would be the worst thing. Or recovering and having awful long term health issues. Selfishly, after working for so long, I'd like to have a bit of time to enjoy my gold plated pension!

There is no evidence that children transmit to adults is there?

Ummm....

@cantkeepawayforever

There is no evidence that children transmit to adults is there?

Ummm....

Ummmm what??

@Myothercarisalsoshit

I'm not even that bothered about the actual dying. Me getting really ill and not being able to work any more would be the worst thing. Or recovering and having awful long term health issues. Selfishly, after working for so long, I'd like to have a bit of time to enjoy my gold plated pension!

I mean yeah... That would be shit for most people but again... How likely is it to happen?

@TrustTheGeneGenie I haven't seen any evidence yet that they don't.

My point is, this is a new virus. Everyone who needs to, is currently working hard trying to figure out exactly how it works.
We know, even with the best will in the world, most primary school kids are germ rags. They'll cough & sneeze on you, double points for them if they let rip at the same time!

So whilst there's no evidence they're super spreaders, there's no evidence that they aren't.

Until there is evidence either way, then teachers (and everyone else, you are correct) should be offered the same chance of protection as everyone else. I'm fully aware it doesn't mean 0 transmission but it reduces the risk.
The way schools are due to reopen in September, there is no reduced transmission risk at all. Staff in schools have been told not to wear masks / PPE.

Long winded but my point is, if we have to wear a mask for 20 minutes whilst shopping (with social distancing in place), why are teachers expected to be in a classroom, with 30 others, with no social distancing and no masks at all, 5 days a week?

I’m happy to go back, but will just make sure I social distance if I visit my parents. I’m very concerned about catching the virus and passing it on; I’m genuinely not worried about my health, just that of the more vulnerable.I always have anti bac wipes and hand gel in my classroom and open the windows as often as possible.
We just have to do the best we can....
Our Head has said we just need to be prepared for last minute changes and be flexible. We delivered brilliant live lessons, so no concerns there.
My frustration is the absolute lack of any direction, plan, funding etc from the government to support the state sector and all the children affected

there's no evidence that they aren't

Mmmm I don't think that's true. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that children aren't the super spreaders they were once thought to be.

A mask doesn't protect the wearer so teachers wearing PPE doesn't help them, though I don't have anything against it if that's what they want.

I think masks on children is counter productive. They'll mess around more, touch their faces more etc. I just personally don't think it would help whatsoever.

Yes you could social distance if you part time school but realistically part time school isn't sufficient.

Well Gene as I have 28 kids in my class, all facing the front (Primary), and we have inadequate ventilation and air heating it's looking more likely than if we had (any) social distancing. As it stands my desk is barely 1 metre away from the nearest child and my room is small so wherever I stand it's the same deal. And as we have seen, the DFE already have plans in place for when teachers get ill or die so it sounds like it's being expected ...

There are 31000 children infected in Florida right now....of all ages...1/4 of which are 5-10 year olds. I assume they caught it from mixing with both adults and other children. If children don't transmit it, why do they wear PPE on the children's wards in case?

@Myothercarisalsoshit

Well Gene as I have 28 kids in my class, all facing the front (Primary), and we have inadequate ventilation and air heating it's looking more likely than if we had (any) social distancing. As it stands my desk is barely 1 metre away from the nearest child and my room is small so wherever I stand it's the same deal. And as we have seen, the DFE already have plans in place for when teachers get ill or die so it sounds like it's being expected ...

Ah yes the d of e expecting teachers to immediately drop dead on the return to the classroom. Come on. If they didn't have plans in place you'd be annoyed about that too I bet. They have to have plans in place it's not that they're expecting sudden death!

What would you prefer?