What will schools do when kids get the inevitable temperatures over winter?

[toastmeahotcrossbun]

Won't they be having to close down every 5 minutes? So many will get temperatures over autumn/winter as they always do. Or will the schools just rely on people getting kids tested ASAP and then close for 2 weeks if someone tests positive? I'm struggling to see how it will work in practice

[quote labyrinthloafer]@BelleSausage
Struggling to remember now why parents were so against investing in good online learning tools and going with part time schooling.

This is what I wanted all along! Because of the ridiculousness of what is happening am thinking the fine looks a good option.[/quote]
Hopefully other parents will start to see the sense in this as a better long term plan once the bubbles start popping (so to speak)

Anyone who thought it was going to be workable, full time school with wrap around care and clubs to take the strain off working parents was kidding themselves.

What we should all be campaigning for is more investment in affordable, flexible childcare. And more flexibility for working parents.

I say this as a teacher who will be paying half my salary every month for a nanny to pick up and drop off DD because there is no wrap around running in my area.

I would imagine this will have a significant impact on households with two KWs as well.

If they have a child in a class that has to self isolate, they will not be able to access any KW childcare provision and the KW parent will need to miss work to look after them.

Will any form of KW provision end entirely?

Just read on another thread (there's a lot of schools opening threads - it's looming now!) that even after a negative test if still unwell you must isolate under NHS guidance? - presumably because the test is so unreliable!

So even more gaps amongst staff and students.

How will this work with siblings? I have 4 DC in 2 different schools. If one of my DCs bubbles is sent home as a classmate has a positive test, do I keep the other 3 off school? Do their bubbles have to isolate, too?

@BabyDubsEverywhere

How will this work with siblings? I have 4 DC in 2 different schools. If one of my DCs bubbles is sent home as a classmate has a positive test, do I keep the other 3 off school? Do their bubbles have to isolate, too?

No.

Ok I am a TA in a Primary school and we have been informed, if any covid symptoms arise, parents need to pick their child up immediately, child will be taken to a designated area with staff member in full PPE until collected.
Advised to take for testing...business as usual for the rest of the class. Until a result in presented.
Positive: bubble bursts resulting in whole class and staff (staffs and all childrens immediate family) to self isolate for 14 day, starting from the day symptoms appeared.(may work out to be less than 14 days depending on how fast the result comes back.
Negative: child welcomed back if not poorly with other illness.
They do not need to prove negative result if they have been absent for 2 weeks due to other illness. But they do if they are expecting to come back before the 2 weeks.

Which just goes to demonstrate what total bollocks bubbles are!

@MichonnesBBF

What do you do if there is no test? If the child or parent refuses? Do you send the class home or stay open?

And is the really high false negative rate a concern to anyone but me?

What I’m totally confused about not getting proof of a negative or positive test. I know it’s a privacy issue but I also know there’s some that will happily say the got a positive test to facilitate a holiday and some that will say they got a negative because they’ve go to get back to work. 1 of each in every school and it’s chaos.

@MichonnesBBF

Ok I am a TA in a Primary school and we have been informed, if any covid symptoms arise, parents need to pick their child up immediately, child will be taken to a designated area with staff member in full PPE until collected. Advised to take for testing...business as usual for the rest of the class. Until a result in presented. Positive: bubble bursts resulting in whole class and staff (staffs and all childrens immediate family) to self isolate for 14 day, starting from the day symptoms appeared.(may work out to be less than 14 days depending on how fast the result comes back. Negative: child welcomed back if not poorly with other illness. They do not need to prove negative result if they have been absent for 2 weeks due to other illness. But they do if they are expecting to come back before the 2 weeks.

Interesting. That’s not what the guidance suggests.

I wonder what will happen if the child whose test was positive, is fine and ready to come back, but the teacher has tested positive or is still within the self-isolation period? Who will teach them?! There could be several children in the bubble who have tested negative and want to return.

My children are secondary so teachers aren't in a bubble.
Am I right to assume that if one of my kids teachers get a positive then the bubbles that they teach aren't burst because they could be teaching every year? Will school be obliged to tell parents if their child's teacher gets a positive?

@JoJothesquirrel

What I’m totally confused about not getting proof of a negative or positive test. I know it’s a privacy issue but I also know there’s some that will happily say the got a positive test to facilitate a holiday and some that will say they got a negative because they’ve go to get back to work. 1 of each in every school and it’s chaos.

I suspect there will be lots and lots of this.

I hadn't appreciated that if you had a negative test you were supposed to isolate for 14 days anyway and it only dropped to 7 with a positive test. I thought you could get on with life after a negative Schools are going to have to ask why a child hasnt come in and not let them back for 14 days and just believe parents if they say it was positive and let them back after 7. Would people lie to get their child back 7 days earlier?
I thinkit will mean people are less likely to send a child in with symptoms as then the schools knows - otherwise you can pick something not on the list as the reason to be ill and come back sooner.

Will any form of KW provision end entirely?

Yes. Who is going to do it? You can't ask teachers to provide childcare for children who should be isolating. I think the key worker thing has rather jumped the shark now though. Saw a teacher in Spain using the fact that she was a key worker for finding it hard to quarantine. a) it's the holidays, you've got ages to quarantine, b) so what? Everyone is going to be losing pay or whatever if they need to quarantine. (Teachers have in all examples I've heard, been told that if they need to quarantine, it's unpaid - completely reasonable).

I wonder what will happen if the child whose test was positive, is fine and ready to come back, but the teacher has tested positive or is still within the self-isolation period? Who will teach them?! There could be several children in the bubble who have tested negative and want to return.

That's two positive tests in the bubble, everyone has to isolate for 14 days even if there is a negative test. Also, the parents of that child who tested positive will be isolating for 14 days anyway, so who will take the child to school? Home learning.

Would people lie to get their child back 7 days earlier?

People lie for lots of reasons when it comes to their children attending school. Both ways - for keeping them 'home' and for sending them in.

I hadn't appreciated that if you had a negative test you were supposed to isolate for 14 days anyway and it only dropped to 7 with a positive test.

That's not guidance as far as I know. Only a positive test with symptoms stays home for 7 days. Their family stays home for 14 days. Presumably the child is ill anyway, so would be off for a period of time, but also if parents are isolating, no one can take them to school.

When I say it's not the guidance, I mean I think that's an individual school's interpretation of the guidance.

On that note, there is new guidance apparently coming out on 11th August, so expect all this confusing stuff to change. I'm hoping they say that secondary schools can have masks.

DH and his boss have been having many conversations about this. Normally a DCs illness doesn't affect DHs ability to go to work, in his boss' case it does affect the business as his DW also works there but normally only one of them would be off or other childcare would be sourced. Our DD gets rampant ear infections in winter through to spring, their DD has asthma which is mainly winter predominant. This is without the normal winter illnesses and bubbles isolating etc. It's going to be a nightmare. DH initially raised the issue with his boss and his boss said odd you should say that because I just raised it with mine, who had also raised it high up as they're in the same boat as well. The only good thing is that there's enough of them working there who'll likely be doing the Hokey Cokey that it won't look like they're just looking for reasons to not go to the office.

I can't imagine this is going to be logistically worse for them than it is in a school either. There's a good likelihood families with a child prone to illnesses like asthma or ear infections are going to spend more time in isolation than anywhere else. This isn't going to be anything like a normal school year for anyone.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/guidance-for-full-opening-schools

There you go. Exciting bed time reading.

if your child is a positive, then your family isolate. The child for 7 days, family for 14. In theory, the child could come back to school if symptom free and 'well' after 7 days, but there won't be a bubble for them to go in to

If the child needs taking to school then it'll be 14 days as nobody to take them. But if there was an older sibling at secondary they would still need to stay home for 14 days right?

thanks ohthegoats will have a look

@ohthegoats

Will any form of KW provision end entirely?

Yes. Who is going to do it? You can't ask teachers to provide childcare for children who should be isolating. I think the key worker thing has rather jumped the shark now though. Saw a teacher in Spain using the fact that she was a key worker for finding it hard to quarantine. a) it's the holidays, you've got ages to quarantine, b) so what? Everyone is going to be losing pay or whatever if they need to quarantine. (Teachers have in all examples I've heard, been told that if they need to quarantine, it's unpaid - completely reasonable).

I wonder what will happen if the child whose test was positive, is fine and ready to come back, but the teacher has tested positive or is still within the self-isolation period? Who will teach them?! There could be several children in the bubble who have tested negative and want to return.

That's two positive tests in the bubble, everyone has to isolate for 14 days even if there is a negative test. Also, the parents of that child who tested positive will be isolating for 14 days anyway, so who will take the child to school? Home learning.

The guidance doesn’t actually say that two positive cases closes the bubble through, does it?

No - I said that further up in my long one. PHE consults with the school about contact within the bubble. We've had PHE involvement quite heavily in our opening plans because of high community transmission in our area, they are quite prescriptive if they need to get involved. In a primary bubble, all the kids will have had close contact with each other, it would be hard to say 'x child hasn't had close contact with y child', so it would have to be assumed they are all possibly lurged up. We had to do bubbles of 30 instead of bubbles of 60 (or 120), which has affected the length of the school day to allow for staggered breaks and departures etc. It's complicated.

Here's a good meme someone put on the teacher board here.

Ha..

"Am I right to assume that if one of my kids teachers get a positive then the bubbles that they teach aren't burst because they could be teaching every year?"

Yes bubbles does not burst teachers are expected to stay 2m away at all times "if possible". I'm sure the school would charge confirm a staff member has tested positive and they classes affected without releasing personal details for the staff member involved.

So I guess what you would do with this information would depends if your DC and other teens in their classes were also 2m from the teacher at all times also, the size of the room they were in, whether they had to move through the corridor, if arguments broke out in the classroom, requiring the teacher to breach the 2m rule and if you are convinced that this was ok if they were only within 2m for say 14 minutes and not 15 etc....

@labyrinthloafer

Just read on another thread (there's a lot of schools opening threads - it's looming now!) that even after a negative test if still unwell you must isolate under NHS guidance? - presumably because the test is so unreliable!

So even more gaps amongst staff and students.

I think this is also because it is really not helpful for a non-covid cough or fever to spread around school either. It would result in lots of children and their families having to isolate for s couple of days and children needing testing. Much easier to say the one ill child stays home until better.

@labyrinthloafer I agree I will be awful. We have worked very hard to get him to the point where he knows school is non negotiable and for him not to be sick when he sees hand gel or a surgical mask.

The idea of getting a swab down his throat is ludicrous, i am keeping my fingers crossed that his matron t school might do it for me as she knows him and his issues well!