Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

Not at secondary but they all have their own separate are entrance to their form rooms so won’t all be congregating in the main entrance

Honey did and I dud, bad.

Whilst schools arrangements are not normal the measures outlined do not represent workable measures in most ways.

Teachers are supposed to keep SD from other staff and pupils but only if possible. Given smallish rooms a d narrow corridors this will be difficult especially as you are relying on teenagers to maintain their distance from you.

There are no safety screens of any kind in schools. In other countries older kids and staff need to at least wear masks in corridors when moving around the building

1m plus distance measures do not apply unless it is expected to last 15 minutes.

Realistically SD in corridors and such will be unenforceable in practice. It has been impossible to maintain SD between pupils with only key worker cohorts in school. The concept of bubbles seems pointless with the way kids mingle around school.

School numbers and staffing will be at normal levels and essentially the measures suggested seem like lip service to reduce risk when we are told that masks and SD are still the most effective measures and every other profession/ job is entitled to one of them.

It does feel to me that we may as well be back to normal for all the difference the steps taken will make. We can only hope that community cases continue to fall because I have little confidence that the guidance will prevent outbreaks in school if a positive case attends.

This is especially true as parents sent kids in before lockdown who should have been isolating and it is a common belief on here at least that kids do not transmit the virus this will happen again.

We will see what happens in October which is coincidentally when furlough ends.

Temps taken is explicitly advised against by gov guidelines.

Staggered starts and finishes only work if pupils don't rely on school buses. Rural areas cannot be staggered.

Staggered lunch and break needs space. 7 year groups at half an hour each for lunch is 3.5 hours if we didn't have 3 dining and outside spaces. We've also bubbled 12&13 as one year group.

My room has only desks, chairs and a teacher desk in it. Oh and a shelf for exercise books. There was barely space to move in it pre covid due to Gove reducing classroom sizes.

Year groups having sections of classrooms works until you get to options and specialist rooms. Eg tech workshop stuff can't be moved. Nor can sports halls.

We would need 12 toilet blocks to have one per sex per bubble. We have 3 per sex in the whole school.

What do you mean by kids going to their own rooms via their own door? We have main doors to the building and fire exits.

ESP the secondary school. Why do people keep saying they are going back to normal? It took 3 pages of pdf to outline all the measures and changes!

How many of those changes applied to staff?

It’s all very well saying that pupils will be in year group zones not mixing with other year groups but how does that help the teacher who is teaching all year groups and in all zones?

Even the idea that kids can’t work facing each other so have to work side by side points them all straight at the teacher.

The measures do not protect staff.

I dont expect my DD to mix much with other year groups

I think this is part of the issue teachers are facing. Parents believe things have been made safe. Schools will say and publish what they need to because public image is important. The government will make out things are good (although hopefully most people have learnt not to trust their covid rhetoric).

However, what happens in the school will likely be a different matter entirely. As a result when teachers complain parents cant seem to appreciate the issue as they've been convinced the measures will make a difference.

Children need an education so its absolutely right they go back. But I'm under no illusions any of the measures in secondary actually make things safer.

@Badbadbunny

Have any teachers come up with answers yet?

Loads but we get told that it should be back to normal.

@noblegiraffe no you are right it doesn’t protect staff. As I don’t work in a secondary school I am not privy to those emails for staff. But as you say, staff have to move around. I really don’t know the answer to this as I don’t think PPE would be very effective- I can’t see how it would work here well? I have however visited dozens of secondary schools in my county and I don’t recall any classrooms being so small that you wouldn’t be able to keep at least 1 meter away from pupils? Maybe that’s just my county?

I’m trying to understand the opposing view here.

Is there genuinely support for largely shutting schools for all children until there is a vaccine? Essentially making all families one income families whilst people home schooling their children? Not letting children do music or team exercise or learn to swim?

Is this what some parents and teachers want?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Find one post where teachers have said that schools shouldn't be opened.

I am willing to bet that you can't.

The case I’m talking about it a single sex school and has enough loos for 1 per 2 year groups. Each form room has its own door to the outside. The school have sectioned off areas which each year group is to stick to- they are not just allowed to wander the school- each year group has its own classrooms. Specialist rooms are going to be mainly used for exam years. Sadly my DD who is not in an exam year I don’t think will get much access to a specialist room. Some schools are talking about scraping many subjects for non exam years including music and art and tech in favour of focussing on maths and English

There are no external doors to classrooms in my school (like primaries have) except, I think, one art classroom and one science one. All the rest are off corridors. Of course, upstairs classrooms can't have external doors.

Do people really think that the infection rate will be lower in September than it is now? I really hope it is but I can't see how with pubs and restaurants open, shops open, people going on holiday all over the country - and the world.

I'd love to be wrong, I really, really would.

Time2change2

We have thought about doing exactly that, but we just don't have the space or facilities.

In fact the teachers are losing toilet facilities so that the school can allow yr specific toilets.

I don’t recall any classrooms being so small that you wouldn’t be able to keep at least 1 meter away from pupils? Maybe that’s just my county?

Even 1m doesn't meet the 1m plus requirement in other workplaces especially as guidance says everyone should face the teacher. The government themselves say that 1m is 10x the risk of 2m

I anticipate that some kids in my form will vocally complain they have have practically no protection at all. This hopefully should have no long term consequences for them but I will simply have to say we can only follow government guidance....

I don’t recall any classrooms being so small that you wouldn’t be able to keep at least 1 meter away from pupils? Maybe that’s just my county?

New build Secondary schools are tiny. I'm thinking of one room I teach in where the kids have to move a desk so I can open the door!

time social distancing is 2m, or 1m with mitigation.

The mitigation is being applied to students. It is not being applied to staff.

The government isn’t meeting its own guidelines.

Is there genuinely support for largely shutting schools for all children until there is a vaccine

No - and no one has said this.

Parents believe things have been made safe. Schools will say and publish what they need to because public image is important.

There were some posters on another thread recently who were saying how excited their children's teachers were to be going back to school to teach again properly. They were clearly very willing to believe the polite face those teachers were putting on things, because it suited the posters' agendas (and the schools' I suppose). I've not met one single teacher in real life who isn't anything other than incredulous at the shit -show most (particularly secondary) schools are faced with.

Not letting pupils do (Some forms of) music comes direct from the guidelines, not on a whim from schools.

time the school you cite does not sound typical at all.

We have very few toilets in my school. In one building there is one set of girls toilets for about 500 pupils. Same for boys. A few of the classrooms have doors from outside but most don't.

And many of our 60s built rooms were built to accommodate 15 to 18 students with a view to specialised A Level rooms. These now cram in 30.

No I’m not talking about singing or wind instruments etc piggy, I mean some schools are considering literally abandoning non core subjects to focus on core for non exam years

This is to get the schools fully open though, surely? It reduces class sizes and spreads the students about.

It is also a DFE suggestion. Not a good one but it is. It should appease the 'my child's life chances have been ruined ' brigade as it focuses on the crucial core. But it seems not.

n one building there is one set of girls toilets for about 500 pupils.
And that's before we even start on when/how often/by whom those toilets are cleaned!

No I’m not talking about singing or wind instruments etc piggy, I mean some schools are considering literally abandoning non core subjects to focus on core for non exam years

This is more likely to do with the fact that lots of curriculum time mocks etc has been lost and as yet the indication is that the full content will be examined as normal. This school may have decided to focus on core subjects which of course are key government monitoring targets.