Schools Reopening?

[ClimbDad]

A major, peer reviewed study into transmission in South Korea has established that tweens and teenagers spread the SARSCOV2 virus more than any other age group.

The study involved more than 65,000 people and used South Korea’s exceptionally effective contact tracing system to look at who brought the virus into households. Tweens and teenagers were the highest index case age group. Younger children transmitted at the same rate as 20-somethings.

This is a large scale, rigorous piece of research that proves children are effective at transmitting the virus. It was conducted in a country that implements strict social distancing and mask wearing among children. The authors say the rate of transmission would have been higher if children weren’t subjected to those measures.

Plans to reopen schools more or less as normal in September will place many lives at risk, and increase the likelihood schools will have to close again. The government needs to acknowledge schools will be highly efficient vectors of viral transmission and change its reopening plans.

Published Paper:
wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

Article on the paper:

www.bloombergquint.com/business/covid-19-spread-fastest-by-teens-and-tweens-korea-study-finds

I've started asking my friends what their employers' plans are. Latest being one in IT in a bank who will be working from home till November at the earliest.
The children in Scotland must be made from stern stuff as I see ones round here cheerily wearing masks so they can go into shops for their sweets and irb bru.

And in the same vein as noble, I'm your child's primary teacher. If I resign, they won't be able to replace me either. Supply teachers are few and far between and your child will therefore be "taught" by a succession of TAs.
You OK with that?

Honey to do your plan wouldn't work due to GCSE options choices meaning 2 days would leave little time with each subject and the lessons simply cannot be "the same" for everyone. Higher tier maths is a totally different course to foundation.

Number of staff required in school even with social distancing. We needed approx half staff to get y10 back one day a week.

The online element would be ignored by some who would then fall further behind.

...it is the government's responsibility to put i measures to reduce community transmission. In schools this will include washing hands, bubbles etc.

It is an individual's responsibility to consider what options are available to them.

So, as far as i can see, a teacher, who has been shielded has the option of resigning and the has shielded child has the option of being de registered or being fined.

Obviously they also have the option of trusting that the govt has got it right, and the measures put place in schools are enough to protect them, despite their extremely vulnerable status.

The teacher can't leave until Christmas even if they resigned now.

I know, noble. Spy on the side, remember!

[quote openplankitchen]@TheHoneyBadger blended learning would not be effective for the majority would be my problem with it[/quote]
However, the alternative to 'planned' blended learning (as part of a whole package for schools that could include smaller classes, genuine SD, regular cleaning, more sinks (and funding for soap and sanitiser), less crowded school buses, screens and mask / visor wearing as appropriate) is not 'full time uninterrupted teaching time in school'.

The real alternative is chaotic, unscheduled blended learning, combining periods of unsafe time in school with periods of various lengths at home or with the teacher absent.

[quote openplankitchen]@TheHoneyBadger blended learning would not be effective for the majority would be my problem with it[/quote]
In what way? And what percentage? And how would that compare with the percentage for whom education in school full time is not effective or the percentage for whom nothing short of intensive one on one tailored intervention would be effective? There’s no magic wand and even in full time normal schooling many make little progress.

Why do you assume we couldn’t make blended learning work? And would it be better than repeatedly shutting down year groups or whole schools?

Some of the greatest teachers are on MN. If you have been on education board, you would know how supportive they are. You can easily imagine how they are irl. It's a great loss if they had no choice but to resign.

Fwiw, I gather like your plans honey. I am also not entirely opposed to the idea of 5 subject lessons in one day as happening in one MAT. Even though I'd hate that as a teacher, I think it is an attempt at controlling mixing. Interesting that that is in Leicester who understand further disruption can and does happen.

Blended learning isn’t effective because most families have to work. We need
to restart the economy.

This is all utterly ridiculous now given the few cases we have. People are dying of untreated cancers, young people are committing suicide and life is on hold. It has to stop. We are destroying the lives of the majority for the minority. And I say that as someone with shielding family members. They have to take great care whether or not the rest of society is fucked

@cantkeepawayforever maybe at first. But realistically if bubbles have to keep closing, the government will likely change the criteria for them closing.

I would be entirely prepared, in fact, for an attempt at children being in school full time, as long as the other measures - regular cleaning, more sinks (and funding for soap and sanitiser), less crowded school buses, screens and mask / visor wearing as appropriate - were in place.

Then a genuine review after a trial period of perhaps a month, followed either by planned blended learning or continuation of the same approach, then further reviews at regular intervals to decide whether certain measures needed to be introduced or dropped.

Current plan: throw everyone in, tell them to spend no money, cross your fingers and hope.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Blended learning isn’t effective because most families have to work. We need to restart the economy.

This is all utterly ridiculous now given the few cases we have. People are dying of untreated cancers, young people are committing suicide and life is on hold. It has to stop. We are destroying the lives of the majority for the minority. And I say that as someone with shielding family members. They have to take great care whether or not the rest of society is fucked

At what age do your children stop needing babysitters? Do you employ full time childcare for teenagers through school holidays?

@TheHoneyBadger I don't think anyone thinks blended learning will be equitable. It's not even considered an option

@Bupkis I do agree with you. It’s very difficult for sheilded / vulnerable kids and teachers. Really hard if they are at a higher risk.

But realistically if bubbles have to keep closing, the government will likely change the criteria for them closing.

Exponential growth, unfortunately, doesn't quite work like that.

So if infection is being passed around a class, it doesn't matter whether you say 'close the class after 2 cases' or 'close the class after 4' - the difference is only time. If asymptomatic, infected children remain in the class, the cases will suimply rise to whatever number you set for 'bubble closure' - just meanwhile the members of the class can go on to infect others within and outside the school, rather than being at home self-isolating.

I can see the we have to work argument for primary but 17 year olds? 16, 15, 14? Where do you draw the line? My 13 year old stays home alone when I’m at INSET. Should I insist the school provides childcare for me to attend teacher training days?

I agree that it’s far far from ideal but opening full time to everyone monday - Friday is vital and not doing so or at least attempting to do so for much longer will be even worse. Somehow this has to work, or at least we have to give it our very best shot and do what we can to make it work. The government do seem to have been quite crap in their advice and I’m sure there is much more they could be doing but none of us in MN are in government office to know all the ins and outs of their decision making. Somehow we have to try to get kids back after 6 months of no school. For the sake of everything else longer term than this virus risk!

Who are this royal we to whom you refer?

openplan

Emergency 'blended' learning [ie sudden swaps from in school to home learning] is absolutely an option - in the latest school guidance it states that every school must have a plan for it in September, that can be available for individuals, groups or the whole school immediately as required.

It will not be as good as planned blended learning, obviously - not will it be as good as full time in school learning with no interruptions of any kind, but sadly the latter is not available under current circumstances.

I've just caught up on this thread. @noblegiraffe and @Climbdad your endless calm and intelligent posts in the face of quite frankly, ignorant, kneejerk and reactionary posts are fully supported by many - teachers, staff and parents alike.

I hope that collectively during the time we have left, government will come to listen to some of the proposals you have eloquently suggested and which have been mooted by so many. If they don't - well, I think we have already worked out the consequences.

I'm bowing out of this thread. There are people here who don't want reasoned debate at all. And as the saying goes, 'You can't argue with stupid'.

With responsibility for local lockdowns being passed to local councils, Johnson can absolve himself of responsibility of reacting quickly. By making the primary and secondary guidance the same he is clearly gambling that teens fit the "children do not pass the virus" mantra that many on here believe too. Even asymptomatic kids have lung damage as a result of Covid and our kids have 70+ years of life left.
I don't think my kids will die from COVID and I'm not saying that schools shut remain closed but I can't believe that anyone who has sat in a secondary classroom or seen what the corridors are like when everyone is switching rooms can possibly think that they are any different to the workplaces that have had outbreaks.

Think she means us. Us for her.

@TheHoneyBadger it's one thing leaving them at home when you're at work, it's another expecting them to do effective online learning while you're out.

I think we have all accepted that blended isn't really a viable option long term.

5 lessons of one subject per day is absolutely awful for actual learning to take place. Learning requires retention and repetition. Teaching maths once a week would be an absolute disaster.