Boris briefing at 11am today

[Scottishgirl85]

More easing? Please 3 households indoor at a time so our holiday can go ahead!

You can only listen to the science for so long... Essentially the science would say close everything down until the virus is gone... However the science does not take into account what would happen to the economy if we just carry on as we are...

I'm sorry I don't see any issues with the info from today. A second wave may never happen and the government may be much more confident on a vaccine than we know about.

No point moaning about something that may or may not happe.

Luckily for us the NHS, key workers and retailers are managing to put these 'fig leaves' in place isn't it

Don't be ridiculous. A key component in making that possible has been keeping public transport as freed up as possible. It makes no sense to force a crowded transport situation unless you want to trigger a second wave early.

We already have shielders and vulnerable people who can perfectly well work from home being told to get back into the workrplace. Obviously they don't matter in your world.

Boris is just trying to shuffle off responsiblity to someone else, as he always does. Phasing the return more gradually whilst keeping job protections in place for those who are vulnerable or caring for vulnerable people.

Your assumption that employers are all diligently stocking their offices with distancing, extra cleaning and hand sanitizers is based on some employment shangri la which doesn't exist for the majority of workers, especially in lowere paid sectors. Not to mention that distancing in the work place automatically precludes large numbers from retunring.

caring for vulnerable people should be caring for vulnerable people makes more sense

I bet Germany haven't been recording someone who died of a heart attack 3 months after a positive test as a Covid death

There is no evidence its happened here either. Its technically possible is all that has been said.

Which is why those stats have not been used by statisticians to assess the true death rate - the also look at excess deaths in that week as if you only record covid deaths as those who have been tested you under report covid deaths.

SO the method used by PHE could possibly over report but has definitely under rerported.

I think they're just chucking more mud at PHE in advance of blaming them and reorganising. It's not like the government weren't merrily counting tests twice when it suited them, and individual gloves.

Excess deaths are WAY higher than official covid figures.

Ultimately if the plebs have to go back to the office then the senior managers do as well.

@IcedPurple

WFH is better for mental health

For you maybe. The opposite is true for many.

Make it voluntary then. Let those who want to work from home continue to do so if they're productive and if people want to go back to the office then let them.

I'm an introvert who has had to deal with an open plan offices for years and years. I had to get on with it.

I'm an introvert who has had to deal with an open plan offices for years and years. I had to get on with it.

But you presumably knew when you chose to accept the job(s) that you would have to "deal with an open plan offices for years and years". Most people who are now working from home didn't sign up for it. Some may love it, some may hate it, but it's not what most people anticipated when they accepted a job offer.

It wouldnt really matter what they decide a death is from. The issue is the huge excess deaths on the charts. I really dont think they were caused by lockdown

'We already have shielders and vulnerable people who can perfectly well work from home being told to get back into the workrplace. Obviously they don't matter in your world.'

You've no idea about 'my world'. Why on earth would you presume that I dont have family and friends are are shielding?!

'Your assumption that employers are all diligently stocking their offices with distancing, extra cleaning and hand sanitizers is based on some employment shangri la which doesn't exist for'

Shangri la? What is with your flowery terminology. Guidance and rules will be in place, you know like Health and Safety legislation? It's a bit like how everyone has to wear face covers on public transport and shops soon. Stop being a victim, people have to get back to some kind of normal while living within restrictions.

Stop being a victim, people have to get back to some kind of normal while living within restrictions.

This is the problem. People shouldn't be bullied back into the office when they can and have been doing their jobs perfectly well from home. Not everyone is comfortable being in an office with lots of people

But you presumably knew when you chose to accept the job(s) that you would have to "deal with an open plan offices for years and years". Most people who are now working from home didn't sign up for it. Some may love it, some may hate it, but it's not what most people anticipated when they accepted a job offer.

Chose? From the wide array of employers pre-pandemic who were insistent WFH was impossible? We never had the choice you're pretending; for most people it was a choice between paying the bills and working in a damaging and inappropriate environment.

I actually felt compassion originally for the people struggling to WFH because it's not the right environment for them, because I know how awful that is and how much it can mess your life up. Except then I observed that the vast majority of you still have no insight or compassion for the damage your preferences have caused other people or what we've been going through all this time so you could have things in your ideal way. My patience is wearing thin now.

You've only had to do this a few months; we've had to endure it and its harmful effects for years and now we finally get a chance at a healthy work environment it's taken away for the benefit of people like you still who have no empathy or consideration for us.

Stop being a victim, people have to get back to some kind of normal while living within restrictions.

The fact you would use "victim" as a slur like that tells us everything we need to know about you.

Chose? From the wide array of employers pre-pandemic who were insistent WFH was impossible? We never had the choice you're pretending; for most people it was a choice between paying the bills and working in a damaging and inappropriate environment.

It's not a straight choice between working from home and in an open-plan office though. If I found that sort of environment tough I wouldn't choose to work there, certainly not for 'years on end'.

Except then I observed that the vast majority of you still have no insight or compassion for the damage your preferences have caused other people or what we've been going through all this time so you could have things in your ideal way. My patience is wearing thin now.

What are you talking about?

How the hell are random people on MN responsible for your working conditions? Take it up with your employers. It's got nothing to do with me or anyone else here.

you've only had to do this a few months; we've had to endure it and its harmful effects for years and now we finally get a chance at a healthy work environment it's taken away for the benefit of people like you still who have no empathy or consideration for us.

I had no idea I had such influence on government policy.

Useful to send office workers bank 1 August when there's hardly any childcare providers running until earliest September... this lots are up to no good, Mark my words

Useful to send office workers bank 1 August when there's hardly any childcare providers running until earliest September... this lots are up to no good, Mark my words

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

What’s the likelihood that money turns out not to be new money but money the NHS already has?

Oh, it definitely wont be new money!

My neighbour works really high up in the NHS moving people from hospital beds to care homes. Her team manages around 5,000 cases over a large geographical area. She says the care homes situation has been hushed up & she has visibly aged these last few months.

She was in tears when the Govt effectively blamed care home managers last week. She will be again I expect with the attempts to shift blame to the NHS.

She tells me that they are working on worst case figures of 250,000 cases of the virus and 120,000 possible deaths between this autumn and next spring. Obvs this is worst case, but it is sobering.

Back to normal by Christmas? Does he think we are all stupid???

I'm so confused.

I have to stay alert and control the virus by social distancing.

I must get fit and lose weight in case of a second wave

But I must also go to work in an office, although I don't need to and that is unnecessary social contact.

And i must buy lattes and overpriced unhealthy food to get the economy going again even though it won't help with getting fitter

And I still can't go to the gym or hug my parents.

Is that correct?

Why can't they just put Whitty in charge.

@C8H10N4O2

I bet Germany haven't been recording someone who died of a heart attack 3 months after a positive test as a Covid death

There is no evidence its happened here either. Its technically possible is all that has been said.

Which is why those stats have not been used by statisticians to assess the true death rate - the also look at excess deaths in that week as if you only record covid deaths as those who have been tested you under report covid deaths.

SO the method used by PHE could possibly over report but has definitely under rerported.

This. Given the ONS figures that use a different methodology, it’s probably going to be a very small number of deaths that get taken off.

And given what we are learning about the disease mechanism of Covid and the damage it can cause to the cardio vascular system even in milder cases, there’s a very good reason why someone who had a heart attack several months after a covid test might have covid as an underlying cause on the death certificate.

This thread reads exactly like the Remain versus the Leave voters.

Ultimately, do what you think is best for you. But don't berate those who choose a different path.

Shielding family here. We are very high risk.

I do wonder if so many people whined on about wearing a gas mask during WW2. I also wonder if social media is to blame for a lot of the discord. For what it's worth, my Grandad fought in the war. He reckoned anyone who talked about it, didn't feel the full effect (he would not talk about the war, and had some horrendous experiences)

Lemon - my grandad was the same is served in Africa and Asia and would never speak about it

'And given what we are learning about the disease mechanism of Covid and the damage it can cause to the cardio vascular system even in milder cases, there’s a very good reason why someone who had a heart attack several months after a covid test might have covid as an underlying cause on the death certificate.'

That sounds pretty much what the director of PHE said too. Doesn't sound convincing tbh. I would suggest that when we are told someone has died of covid we expect it to be those that have died of it as a direct cause not something they had recovered from a while ago and then gone on to die of terminal cancer.

@cosycatsocks
Gyms reopen on the 25th but the guidelines on working from home don't change until the 25th. It is also true that getting people into the office will for many boost the level of exercise that they are doing. The government are also happy for you to buy a salad and fruit smoothie from the cafe if you really wanted rather than anything unhealthy. The truth is the economy is what funds the NHS which means protecting the NHS requires protecting the economy as much as physically possible, which simply cannot be said about hugs.

@GetOffYourHighHorse
It also fails to consider that regular deaths are inevitable in care homes where residents are more likely, than the population as a whole , to have previously had Covid. Any methodology that includes care home deaths a number of months after the positive test for Covid will quickly and increasingly overstate the true number of deaths.