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Do people really still believe that the balance of evidence doesn't support the widespread used of face coverings and mask wearing to reduce Covid 19 transmission?

60 replies

bumblingbovine49 · 13/07/2020 17:37

Because if so, I really can't see how you come to that conclusion.
This is only based on the first 2 pages of a Google search on ' Evidence for mask wearing' so I am willing to be convinced otherwise but this seems to me to me to be even more convincing than I had thought . Of course if it just because you don't want to wear one, that is different.

Face covering/Mask wearing – evidence that they help reduce Covid 19 transmission

PRO
July 2020 Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Review - We recommend that public officials and governments strongly encourage the use of widespread face masks in public, including the use of appropriate regulation

June 2020 The Lancet- l " The use of face masks was protective for both health-care workers and people in the community exposed to infection, with both the frequentist and Bayesian analyses lending support to face mask use irrespective of setting. Our unadjusted analyses might, at first impression, suggest use of face masks in the community setting to be less effective than in the health-care setting, but after accounting for differential N95 respirator use between health-care and non-health-care settings, we did not detect any striking differences in effectiveness of face mask use between setting

June 2020: University of Califonia San Francisco. mnemonic that Chin-Hong likes is the “Three W’s to ward off COVID-19:” wearing a mask, washing your hands, and watching your distance.
“But of the three, the most important thing is wearing a mask,” he said. Compared to wearing a mask, cleaning your iPhone or wiping down your groceries are “just distractors.” There’s little evidence that fomites (contaminated surfaces) are a major source of transmission, whereas there is a lot of evidence of transmission through inhaled droplets, said Chin-Hong. “You should always wear masks and socially distance,” said Rutherford. “I would be hesitant to try to parse it apart. But, yes, I think mask wearing is more important.”

June 2020: Stamford University. The timing of these new recommendations is critically important. Across the country, communities are beginning to end shelter-in-place and to return to work and community settings. Nonmedical face masks will become an increasingly important way, in conjunction with frequent hand washing and social distancing, to prevent the resurgence of disease

June 2020 : Health affairs research article. The study provides evidence that states in the US mandating use of face masks in public had a greater decline in daily COVID-19 growth rates after issuing these mandates compared to states that did not issue mandates. These effects are observed conditional on other existing social distancing measures and are independent of the CDC recommendation to wear facial covers issued on April 3.

June 2020 : NPR news. This month, the real world provided anecdotal evidence to back that assessment: The head of the local health department in Springfield, Mo., reported that after two hair stylists tested positive for the coronavirus, none of the 140 clients and six co-workers potentially exposed came down with COVID-19. As The Washington Post reports, officials said the two hair stylists wore cloth masks. According to a statement from the health department in Springfield, the salon also had other policies in place, such as distancing salon chairs and staggering appointments.

May 2020 DELVE – Data Evaluation and Learning for Viral Epidemics Face masks could offer an important tool for contributing to the management of community transmission of Covid19 within the general population. ….. Our analysis suggests that their use could reduce onward transmission by asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic wearers if widely used in situations where physical distancing is not possible or predictable, contrasting to the standard use of masks for the protection of wearers. If correctly used on this basis, face masks, including homemade cloth masks, can contribute to reducing viral transmission.

May 2020 : Forbes Currently the advice is to wear a mask if you are going to go to an enclosed area where you may expose yourself to other people. OK, that last part may have come out wrong. Rather, it is to protect others from what fluid droplets may be coming from you. Well, that may not leave quite the right impression, but you get the picture.
Outside in the open, the wind may blow away such droplets. However, in a store or other inside location, your emitted droplets could end up in someone else’s lungs.

April 2020: Wired In a nutshell: The Face Mask Debate Reveals a Scientific Double Standard
No one complained about the lack of evidence for 20-second hand-washing. So why did we treat face masks differently?

April 2020 Journal of nursing studies In summary, there is a growing body of evidence supporting all three indications for respiratory protection – community, healthcare workers and sick patients (source control). The largest number of randomised controlled trials have been done for community use of masks by well people in high-transmission settings such as household or college settings. There is benefit in the community if used easily, with hand hygiene and if compliant.

Universal face mask use is likely to have the most impact on epidemic growth in the community, given the high risk of asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transmission .

NEUTRAL

Jun 2020 Centre for Infectious Disease and Policy. "It's actually not helpful for scientists to hide behind a curtain of certainty. There is uncertainty about masks. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be wearing them," Kriebel said. Instead of clamoring for scientific studies to back up mandates on mask use, Kriebel argues for more transparency in public health messaging. "I would say, 'Mask use is our best judgment right now, and we will tell you if we get more evidence," he said.

"The world is much messier than we would like to admit," said Kreibel. "We do our best and admit our uncertainty."

May 2020 Science Media Centre A number of responses to the DELVE study above. Most are not saying masks are harmful just that more evidence is needed

ANTI
June 2020 Reference The conversation National and international public health bodies now recommend that members of the public use masks in places where it’s difficult to maintain social distancing, such as on public transport. We strongly urge readers to carry on with good hand hygiene and social distancing, not touching their face and using reusable (rather than disposable) face coverings – and safely disposing of them at the end of their useful life

May 2020 Medical Express Social distancing and handwashing are still the best. In the meantime, Saxinger advises sticking with what we already know for sure. "There is a risk that people who wear masks will feel perhaps too confident and behaviors may change," she said. "To be honest, masks are unlikely to be a substitute for maintaining distancing and handwashing—those are our really solid, proven, core measures right now."

OP posts:
Toilenstripes · 15/07/2020 07:24

Some people won’t wear them because they’re dicks. Some people won’t wear them because of a phobia. I wore one yesterday for several hours getting my hair done. It took a while to get used to it and at one point I had a hot flush and felt like tearing it off. I had to give myself a pep talk and was fine in the end. I do wonder if other cultures are as squeamish about them as we seem to be.

Derbygerbil · 15/07/2020 07:26

I do wonder if other cultures are as squeamish about them as we seem to be.

It’s because it’s new and jarring... Give it a few weeks and people will be as comfortable with them as they are elsewhere.

wildcherries · 15/07/2020 07:34

@Moondust001

Obviously people really still do believe it, or don't actually care. So other than, at great length, pontificating on your own views, was there a point to the thread?
Agreed. Was there really a need for yet another thread on this?
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 15/07/2020 07:55

Well there is plenty who will argue that all that’s needed is for people to use their common sense

What that really means is I’ve read some advice and will do what suits ME

The government could have encouraged people to wear homemade face covering or fabrics covering people don’t need to buy surgical masks

There is going to be outbreaks but wearing face coverings/masks shall have reduce infection rates significantly. Covid is still around and still infectious the more people wearing masks the less infection spreads

MyFirstMyLastMyEverythingBagel · 15/07/2020 08:05

Surely it should be anywhere inside then? So I need a mask for shopping, on public transport, where generally I would be for a max of a couple of hours, but it's not mandatory in my open plan office with over 1000 staff where I am for 8 plus hours a day?

I'm not whinging nor complaining rather struggling to understand the logic. It's either needed or not Hmm

Yester · 15/07/2020 08:15

The mask debate has clarified that many people are not very bright, quite self-centred and believe all sorts of shite.
I have asthma and really struggled wearing a mask at first as it made me worried about breathing but little and often has helped me. Some people won't be able to but some people don't want to for some selfish or uneducated reason.

TheGreatWave · 15/07/2020 08:51

@Yester

The mask debate has clarified that many people are not very bright, quite self-centred and believe all sorts of shite. I have asthma and really struggled wearing a mask at first as it made me worried about breathing but little and often has helped me. Some people won't be able to but some people don't want to for some selfish or uneducated reason.
Yes the debate has shown that many mask advocates are not very bright. This is evidenced in the responses to those who have said they will not be going out as much, as someone how that means that they are selfish and uneducated.
Sunshine1235 · 15/07/2020 09:15

Lockdown skeptics has a few articles with summaries and links to various studies that conclude masks aren’t necessary that you might find interesting as a comparison.

lockdownsceptics.org/masks-how-effective-are-they-an-update/

And also

lockdownsceptics.org/scientific-information-on-masks-against-covid-19/

As others have said a quick google probably isn’t the best way to bring up a variety of results as google rankings are not random.

I found this quote interesting from a Newsnight report

‘The debate is deeply political. Newsnight understands that the World Health Organisation committee that reviewed the evidence for the use of face coverings in public didn’t back them. But after political lobbying, the WHO now recommends them.‘

I hadn’t really thought about the fact that the WHO would also be susceptible to political lobbying. It was easy to think ‘oh the WHO recommends it so it must be based on science’ but as always with these things there is a lot more going on.

(Ps not advocating one way or another re. mask wearing I just like to be aware of a variety of opinions not just the mainstream)

Sunshine1235 · 15/07/2020 09:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Catyness · 15/07/2020 10:23

We're told what to do every day. For example don't drive over a certain speed to protect yourself and others and wear a seat belt to protect yourself. These are generally accepted rules of society.

Wearing a face mask in indoor public space is exactly the same in the current situation we find ourselves in. Wear one (if you can) to protect yourself and others. Maybe it's difficult to adjust to because we grew up with the other rules and this is a new one.

A good level of scientific evidence shows face masks reduce the rate of transmission. Common sense is that a mask will trap at least some of virus containing droplets released in breath or a cough or sneeze. No one is saying they're 100% effective, just that they can reduce transmission rates. There's also discussions about how exposure to a lower level of viruses might result in a less serious illness, which could be another positive outcome of mask wearing even if it doesn't prevent infection.

The more we can do to stop the spread, the sooner we will be able to get more back to normal life, the economy will have a better chance and the fewer people will die. I've lost a colleague to the virus this week. I wish we could all pull together to defeat this virus.

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