Is anyone thinking of keeping kids off school in Aug/Sep?

[user8558]

I know a lot can change before then.

And I know lots of kids are desperate to go back and parents desperate for them to go back.

But is anyone considering at this stage keeping them home a little longer?

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-warning-from-italy-effects-of-covid-19-could-be-worse-than-first-thought-12027348
Perhaps some of you should have a read of this link.

No. Why would You?

I'm furious that both of mine are still at home, since March.

Interesting article

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/german-study-covid-19-infection-rate-schools-saxony

[quote Alex50]Interesting article

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/german-study-covid-19-infection-rate-schools-saxony[/quote]
That would be good news. I’m always so frustrated by articles (from both sides of the fence). I want to know the figures in their control group (ie how different were the figures) and whether that could be explained by the school lockdowns (ie children may not have had so much exposure). Equally if they had it asymptomatically how long would the antibodies hang around for?
I am just a random (maths teacher) mum who likes numbers but has no idea and lots of frustrations about only seeing part of the picture. I’m sure that often there is only part of a picture to be seen rather than articles holding stuff back, and it’s great that they’re doing studies like this. I’m sure that science, medicine and research will get us out of this. Already amazing discoveries have been made - I’m in constant awe of scientists and medics, both here and abroad.

What I would want to know is what 'being in school' meant for the students and teachers in the sample.

I would want to know:

• numbers per class
• proportion of whole school in the building
• time spent in a single class
• distance between students within the class and when moving between classes
• whether masks or visors were won
• any other mitigation measures in the school
• any lockdown measures still in force in the community

We have all seen photographs of German schools starting to return after Covid - tiny numbers per class and school, clear social distancing, lockdown measures still in place in the community.

If those are the conditions under which this study was conducted, then its relevance to a full return of schools in England in September is extremely limited.

Good god. No!

[quote Alex50]Interesting article

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/german-study-covid-19-infection-rate-schools-saxony[/quote]
Yes I read that and it was interesting. Two things went through my pessimistic mind were what age children and they enforce mask wearing. But yes it was interesting.

"If those are the conditions under which this study was conducted, then its relevance to a full return of schools in England in September is extremely limited."

Absolutely spot on. It annoys me when people bring up stats and reports from different countries and say "look, it's worked fine in Germany, or Sweden". Its so random. We have no idea of how many kids in a class or whether they are social distancing. In High schools, we are going to have bubbles of 150 kids. 150. Just ridiculous. And no social distancing. And no masks. In lessons they are 3 to a desk (only big enough for 2!), that's how squashed in they are. It wont be like the pictures weve been shown on the news where there is social distancing and 5 kids in a classroom and all stood apart outside. It a absolutely wont be like that. And for all those people saying children dont get it...just cast your mind back to when this started and groups of kids were coming back from ski trips in Italy....guess what?...they all got it! Do you remember schools were closing left right and centre? That's because they all got it. Not included in the figures? Guess thats because testing wasnt as available for kids and since then they've been in lockdown.

Yes I’d also like to see reports from schools with large numbers of children not social distancing. Germany and Sweden did social distance from the get go

Absolutely not, I’m in a rural area of Scotland that luckily had very few cases/deaths and I’m about to start my nursing degree through the open uni in October, my kids need to be back at school as normal from August to allow me to continue to work and train to better our lives and allow us to start saving for the children’s future

Can a class of 30 secondary school pupils really socially distance adequately in one class room? I just can't see how it can happen. yet we just had confirmation today of the schools plans for these bubbles of 30 (as per government guidelines) but how is this even physically possible?? What are the guidelines coming from other secondary schools? Ours say that there's no change in to toilet system accept for hopefully soap WILL now be available. There will be hand gel outside each class room and each year group will have designated eating areas. By biggest concern is just te whole class of 30 thing. Anyone else? Can anyone reassure me?? Thanks

And what about cleaning of the classrooms? My sister is a teacher and hers and many others I heard closed one day a week for a deep clean. September maybe ok-ish covid wise but come October and November?? And what happens when there is a case of covid in one of the bubbles? Cet

There won’t be socially distancing. Many will get to school by bus or tube, have siblings in different classes or schools, parents going to work, everyone doing different after school activities, shopping in Tesco’s etc. Bubbles won’t exist.

Cet73. They might be sat in a class of 30 for the first lesson, but then another class of 30 (different kids) for the second lesson etc etc...7 lessons a day? That's why the bubble of 30 doesnt count for high school, it's a whole year group bubble, so 100 to 150 odd. I think they've basically said no social distancing.

Arh Thank you - yes I remember now that it's year group bubbles not class bubbles. What happens if/when someone is tested positive in a year bubble? I'm more intrigued by schools as U used to work at a large sixth form college and their plans are for students to have minimal 1:1 lessons and most other aspects of student timetabled meetings |& lessons including tutor times, on line. Just 1/5 of students roughly on site at one time. The college is in the same town as my childs school. They seem to be applying more struct rules but they both under our local educational council. I have always wondered with regards to children and their reletive risk of getting covid 19, at what AGE roughtly do the children change from the lowe risk of a child to the higher risk of an adult. Sixth form colleges, students 16-18 yrs are essentially treated the same as schools but they are 'emerging' adults. So maybe more risk for the older children from years 10 onwards?? Cet

Government guidance says that whole bubble may close if there are two confirmed cases in a bubble, in consultation with the local health authority. Or it looks like a rise of students being kept off with likely symptoms.

Government guidance says that whole bubble may close if there are two confirmed cases in a bubble, in consultation with the local health authority. Or it looks like a rise of students being kept off with likely symptoms.

Cet,

Sixth form colleges (not attached to schools) come under the FE guidance, which does not assume everyone in full time in September.

Sixth forms within schools come under the Schools guidance, which assumes everyone from all year groups in full time.

It creates a very interesting dynamic in places where sixth form colleges and schools with sixth forms co-exist - do the sixth form colleges also go in full time because the institutions they are 'in competition with' are in? Or will people actually prefer the much safer FE guidance, especially since sixth formers are 'adults', not 'children' in terms of COVID?

I think the main reason is parents worried about them bringing it home. Tbf i can understand that, it worries me too, but at what point do we put the kids first?

A good friend of mine has two children, the youngest one being in Year 1 so could have gone back when the schools opened 6 weeks ago. My friend is very, very anxious about the virus to the point where she’s prob my only left the house about 5 times since the lockdown began.

Neither she, her husband, or any of the children are vulnerable or considered to be at risk. However, her sister is on the vulnerable list and my friend is an occasional career for her (visits her once a week) and so says she can’t risk taking the virus to her sister.

When the schools reopened she decided not to send her Year 1 son back because she was worried he would catch the virus, bring it home to the rest of them and then she may pass it on to her sister during her weekly visit.

Her son has some mild delay in his learning and does struggle a little at school but he has good support from the teacher and also has daily SALT sessions with one of the classroom teachers.

As a result of him not going back to school he’s missed out on his daily support sessions and will no doubt be even further behind his peers when they return in September due to missing the 6 weeks of education that the other children have had. He is the only pupil out of his class (28 pupils) who did not go back.

I do understand my friend’s concerns but I also wonder to what detriment she is putting her son at, in terms of his education and socially, by keeping him away from school in order to protect a relative he doesn’t even come into contact with himself.

She has told me that she’s considering not sending him back in September for the same reason of keeping her sister safe.

I would never pass comment to her but I do think to myself that surely her child should come first, especially because the risk is so low?????

Regarding putting kids first, I think if you are shielding, it is absolutely putting your kids first to avoid the risk and possible trauma of a bad covid experience, never mind bereavement.

People talk a lot as though kids are affected by missing school, but are not affected by a parent being seriously ill.

The truth is too many children are bereaved or had parents who are recovering longterm and I do worry about that.

@QueenofmyPrinces

I think the main reason is parents worried about them bringing it home. Tbf i can understand that, it worries me too, but at what point do we put the kids first?

A good friend of mine has two children, the youngest one being in Year 1 so could have gone back when the schools opened 6 weeks ago. My friend is very, very anxious about the virus to the point where she’s prob my only left the house about 5 times since the lockdown began.

Neither she, her husband, or any of the children are vulnerable or considered to be at risk. However, her sister is on the vulnerable list and my friend is an occasional career for her (visits her once a week) and so says she can’t risk taking the virus to her sister.

When the schools reopened she decided not to send her Year 1 son back because she was worried he would catch the virus, bring it home to the rest of them and then she may pass it on to her sister during her weekly visit.

Her son has some mild delay in his learning and does struggle a little at school but he has good support from the teacher and also has daily SALT sessions with one of the classroom teachers.

As a result of him not going back to school he’s missed out on his daily support sessions and will no doubt be even further behind his peers when they return in September due to missing the 6 weeks of education that the other children have had. He is the only pupil out of his class (28 pupils) who did not go back.

I do understand my friend’s concerns but I also wonder to what detriment she is putting her son at, in terms of his education and socially, by keeping him away from school in order to protect a relative he doesn’t even come into contact with himself.

She has told me that she’s considering not sending him back in September for the same reason of keeping her sister safe.

I would never pass comment to her but I do think to myself that surely her child should come first, especially because the risk is so low?????

If I was the sister I wouldn't allow my DN to be held back from school for the sake of my health. I'd be telling my Sister that I'd try to find an alternative weekly support until this is all over so they could return to school. Obviously I don't know in what way the sister Is vulnerable or if she even knows shes the reason her DN isnt in school but she can't be totally reliant on her if she only goes once a week.

I suspect the sister is more of an acceptable excuse:
that this parent has health anxiety about her children and probably for herself as well

One of mine went back to school already, but if I am honest I think those without health anxiety at the moment are the outliers.

It is totally up to parents to decide what is best for their family, but they do have to accept that schools have no obligation to provide anything for their child, unless the child is off on medical advice because of the child's health.
Those who choose not to send their children in will have to start actually home-schooling, rather than just ensuring children do the work provided by the school. Obviously they will not know what the children in school will have covered, so it may be difficult for them just to slot in if the parent changes their mind about attending school. Also schools will focus a lot on mental well-being and readjusting to school at the beginning of the autumn term, whereas those that are kept off longer will be thrown straight in when they do return.

I'll happily keep mine off OP if I think it's not safe to send them. The government have made a rats arse of every decision they've made and forcing kids back to school if the circumstances aren't right could end up being the next 'care homes' cock-up of the management of this.