Is anyone thinking of keeping kids off school in Aug/Sep?

[user8558]

I know a lot can change before then.

And I know lots of kids are desperate to go back and parents desperate for them to go back.

But is anyone considering at this stage keeping them home a little longer?

The very real issue of child abuse and neglect is important but separate.

The issue is a small number of parents, who are perfectly good parents, will feel unsafe returning their children. The system in England says they'll be fined, in Wales they won't. I think the Welsh approach is better.

@Hazelnutlatteplease my point about no under lying conditions was meant in the respect of the relative chance of a child without any condition dying of covid is minuscule. Not in any way meaning its ok for a child with a health condition to die. I think you probably know that but choose to take the obtuse view!

I am not and never have implied its wrong not to send a child back to school where they or their family have an increased risk from covid

What I do think is wrong Is for children to be kept home for no real credible or medical reason!
At the moment parents have a choice, not all parents make that choice in the best interests of the child.
If school becomes "mandatory " then those that have genuine reason to keep children at home should be looked after and those who dont should be encouraged to send their children to school.

Imagine a class of 30.... 15 children return 15 don't..... out of the 15 who dont only 3 have a genuine reason not too....
The teacher needs to be available to both home and classroom children equally...not possible.... the quality of the classroom teaching isnt what it used to be/should be because it needs to able to be done effectively in both settings.
Change that to mandatory for all those that have no medical reason not to be there.... the teacher will find it easier to provide lessons for an almost full class and then some separate home learning (unlikely at the same scale of the classroom lessons, just like being provided now) and be more accessible online to 3 students that actually need to home support than a 50/50 split.

I think if parents have to keep their dc home they understand the education they receive would not be of the same standard it would be in the classroom. Should all pupils carry on with a sub standard education for the sake of those who stay home for no real reason?

[quote Uhoh2020]@Hazelnutlatteplease child dies as a result of long term neglect and abuse at home..... school didn't raise the alarm because parents have a choice to send their children back or not. Teachers dont have the time or man power to account for the wellbeing of pupils both in the classroom and those at home.

No, no PR failure there as long as the kid didn't die of covid![/quote]
So child from a neglected home counts more than a shielded child or a child with a shielded parent. What happens if its a shielded child in a neglected home?

Surely all matter and we shouldnt be throwing any child under the bus. Why not just ensure that the at risk children have the appropriate processes in place?

Not to mention the schools who have done an incredible job maintaining contact throughout lockdown

How do you suppose they maintain this contract and teach a full school day at the same time?
If only those who actually need to be kept home are needed to be contacted that will be an easier task than those that are kept home for no proper reason.

When my child has medical long absences the LA are meant to provide a home tutor so that child doesnt fall behind. This is applied for by the in hospital teacher team who teach child whilst in hospital. Our LA has never provided this. They delay organising it by a process of taking the application through a series of hoops. This long process means that by time this happens the child is back at school 3months of missed education is normal for us. Nobody ever cares when a minority group is effected but suddenly missing education causes all these terrible problems for children and now we are likely to be pressured into sending these same vunerable children into a high risk enviroment when previously their education has been ignored.

People rarely understand other perspectives.

But this should be parents choice.

Surely they will fall under the medically advised not to attend category whether it be to themselves or family member.

My son is in the extremely medically vulnerable category, when lots of children were removed from the shielding list - he wasn't, his paediatrician said that he should stay on the list. However shielding is being paused in August....so ALL children will be returning to school.
shielding advice for all adults and children will pause on 1 August, subject to a continued decline in the rates of community transmission of coronavirus (COVID-19). This means that even the small number of pupils who will remain on the shielded patient list can also return to school, as can those who have family members who are shielding.
Unfortunately, if your child is medically vulnerable but shielding is paused, then they will have to go to school as per guidelines above...and if I believe it is not safe, because actually the numbers aren't low enough, ds is still as vulnerable as he ever was and his complex needs haven't magically disappeared....then that means bupkis, because we will still be fined.

@Trackandtrace exactly why only those medically advised should stay off school and not just anyone. The more children off school wanting home school provisions the less likely you will get it for your dc who actually needs that provision.

[quote Uhoh2020]@Trackandtrace exactly why only those medically advised should stay off school and not just anyone. The more children off school wanting home school provisions the less likely you will get it for your dc who actually needs that provision.[/quote]
Thats not how it works in my experience through. Several children off then the school/LA are far more likely to provide materials compared to just one or 2 children. It is very much viewed as hardly worth it just for a few children.

Also, school reaction can vary. Do you know how many attendence letter go out for low attendence regardless of reason. We were always getting them, and although the school would say they understand its medical, as a parent i felt judged, i hated the calls to say child would be absent. I hated that on occation i felt pressure to send in against my better judgement due to being told we will phone you if they are ill. Like i am unable to judge this myself.

So yes i fear how the school will judge us not sending in sept if shielding is still paused. I fear that this will be used as an excuse not to provide needed support once back at school because they will say well they are only behind because you choose not to send during covid.

@Time2change2

Nope and IMO people should be fined for not sending their kids in come September. Anyone who decides not to send them should dereg and home school but should also think about getting MH help. Praying something is done about all the children who are victims of abuse and who have been out of the system since March

Anyone who decides not to send them in needs mental help???? Wow you really come across as completely ignorant, judgemental and lacking of any empathy to concerned mothers. To say all parents should be fined or deregister is a totally intolerant comment which has no substance or sensitivity to vulnerable mothers like myself . Are you really suggesting that if or when a second wave hits parents should be happily saying “oh yes send them in no matter what”? Schools won’t fine parents if numbers return to April figures and the death tolls becomes a thousand per day. Additionally the reality is kids will be off frequently anyway because of winter cold/flu/bugs. Schools won’t be operating normally for some time because of the precautions and keeping children off to be sure they are Covid free.I think your intolerance stems from your own fears and frustrations over lockdown and you like some others on here go on the attack to women like the op who are just expressing genuine concerns. If it doesn’t fit your own narrative of “send than back at any cost” then you opt for shaming and labelling them as neurotic. I believe everyone should have the right to decide what is right for their own family. Everyone’s situation is different.

uhoh2020

You have a lot of faith Doctors will get it right.....

Or indeed the shielding list is right

DS wasn't officially put on the shielding list until June. Nothing had changed the week before he was told to shield until the week after. It just took the Doctor/GP/gov that long to decide whose responsibility it was to physically add him to the list. Meanwhile by rights i could have been up for a fine.
Shielding quite frankly is a mess.

And actually if I'd trusted the Doctors involved with DS' care, he would currently being treated by CAMHS we would never have tracked the physical cause of his difficulties and he would never have been on the shielding list. I would have known cos i already had to deal with it when the shit hit the fan. The doctor's still can't give me a straight answer on much.

I have a lot more faith that families know whats right for their child than the doctors.

@Trackandtrace I'm sorry you have experienced that I hope you haven't been fined for your dc being off. I'm sure that given the choice you'd rather your dc be in school like every other kid if they could.

I suppose it's a fine line the authorities have to work with to ensure children are being kept home for the right reasons.
Theres definitely lessons to be learned for the future in relation to school absence and external support for those that need it the most. Unlikely any significant change will happen soon without extra funding to education.

@Trackandtrace we have had similar. Letters that acknowledge ds's medical needs and time off due to operations, whilst warning us with the welfare officer.

Our remote learning provision has basically been 'have a look at the work provided for the mainstream year your child is working at' (so for ds, who is year 5, I have looked at year2 work - lots of it is unsuitable however.) I'm not worried about the remote learning ending in September because it has been so poor so far we have worked out our own stuff to do. I'd just like to not get fined if we decide ds is safer at home.

I’m far from being a mathematician but using a 1/10000 fatality rate (as suggested by eg UKRI) and a very rough estimate of 16m under 18s I get more like 1600 child deaths. And that’s making the absurd assumption that 100% of children catch it. Where are you getting 48000 from? That suggests a mortality rate of about 0.3%.

“by my sums (and I may be wrong) 3000 child coronavirus deaths without preexisting conditions, 45000 child coronavirus deaths with preexisting conditions (but they dont count remember).“

I think children should be able to be at home if their parents wish - or need to from a shielding or similar concern. However it would have to be homeschooling organised by parents. I’ve heard several schools say they won’t fine anyone for not being in and would be okay if they communicated with the school and negotiated.

@trackandtrace your Local Authority have one week from being informed that your child is going to be absent for more than fifteen days to put in place a tutor. You don't have to put up with this. You write quoting Section 19 of the Education Act 1996 states that "Each local education authority shall make arrangements for the provision of suitable education at school or otherwise than at school for those children of compulsory school age who, by reason of illness, exclusion from school or otherwise, may not for any period receive suitable education unless such arrangements are made for them."
You also refer to the LGO report Out of School Out of Mind stating that LGO consider that one week is a reasonable timescale to get this education in place.
If it isn't in place after one week you make a formal complaint, referring to their complaints procedure. Follow the published complaints procedure even if by the time you get a response your child is back in school. Once the complaints procedure is exhausted you refer it to the Local Government Ombudsman.
Dd received a payment from our LA of just short of £2000 for failing to make provision for a child unable to attend school recently. As parents we need to make a stand when Local Authorities fail to meet their statutory duty.

Thank you, i didnt know that x

"You legally have to provide your child with an education, if your child is registered at a school then you need to make sure they attend that setting to receive such education as it will no longer be provided for home learning."
Sorry, @Uhoh2020, that's not true for me. I live in Wales. They have said no fines in Wales.

"ONLY if your child is extremely medically vulnerable or has been advised not too attend school by health professionals will this be an exception."

Not true again, but you werent to know I live in Wales.

"Schools cannot be expected to provide substantial education on both platforms its not feasible so parents can have a choice."

It is in Wales

Both of mine are already back in R and Y3 as our school has bubbles for every year group and they both have been so much happier.

Hardly anyone has sent theirs in for the Welsh catch up sessions. They reported an average of 50 per cent in Wales sent them back, but I think it's less. Our local Junior school was only open 2 days this week. Children that go back, only get a half day session a week. I think in Wales, everyones confidence that it's safe to go back is very very low.

@NotShiny What is tough for those of us in England is it actually much safer now in Wales and Scotland, but Welsh parents have options whilst English parents are threatened with fines.

England's new cases have seemingly stopped dropping while Wales and Scotland continue to improve.

@NotShiny do you live in Wales then? You should have said.....

"England's new cases have seemingly stopped dropping while Wales and Scotland continue to improve."
Not in all of Wales unfortunately. Some places are on the rise Wrexham for instance is in the list of places to be possibly put on lockdown again.

@NotShiny And local changes are another good reason not to be fined automatically.

Yes, better safe than sorry.

@Bignet182

Yes, better safe than sorry.

I feel so sorry for children in this situation, how long are you going to deny them access to other people, their friends, a normal life.

I assume you'd have mentioned any shielding issues if there are any, do you not worry that you are storing up neuroses and anxiety for the future?