What would be the consequences of refusing the coronavirus vaccine?

[Redolent]

So it’s being reported today that a sixth of all UK adults wouldn’t get vaccinated for coronavirus, and up to a third are unsure. I had a chat with my own sister-in-law few days ago and her family is also ‘worried about what they’re going to pump into us’...

I can’t see the vaccine being compulsory - it would just further fuel conspiracy theories - so what might be the consequences of turning down a vaccine? For instance, restrictions on international travel, countries refusing admittance? Employers requesting evidence of vaccination?

Redolent - is there a MERS vaccine? Is the work coming from there the most promising?

@BillywilliamV

No its fine, luckily the rest of us poor suckers that do get the vaccine will reduce the spread for those of you who are too precious to have it.

I would take it, and my kids - but I would hate to live in a country that forced medical treatment on people. Only totalitarian states do that.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

I suppose similar consequences to refusing any other vaccines. What are those?

Death ?

I would take it, and my kids - but I would hate to live in a country that forced medical treatment on people. Only totalitarian states do that.

and religions.

DGRossetti

Iwalkinmyclothing
I suppose similar consequences to refusing any other vaccines. What are those?

Death ?

God, don't give some people ideas. They'll be lining up to terminate those refusing the vaccine on the grounds that it endangers life not to have it.

Would I forcibly hold people down, no. I probably wouldn’t clog up the justice system by criminalising it. But I’d make it pretty damn hard to be part of society. Why is refusing a vaccine any less selfish/criminal/antisocial than refusing to lockdown? You want the benefits of a thriving economy, a healthcare system not overloaded with COVID, a school system that doesn’t shut down every five minutes, you contribute by getting a safe and effective vaccine when it’s offered.

@BillywilliamV

No its fine, luckily the rest of us poor suckers that do get the vaccine will reduce the spread for those of you who are too precious to have it.

I will get it (I imagine it would be mandatory at my work anyway, but even if it were not I would still want the vaccine) and I will ensure my children have it, but if you want as wide a take up as possible, this sort of attitude is really unhelpful. It might make you feel better to do the aggressive sneering, but it really sets people against you and makes them far less likely to listen to the arguments you are making. What do you want more- widespread takeup of a vaccine, or to give people shit for expressing concerns about it?

At the very least if you won’t help get the economy, the nhs, schools, social care etc back on track by getting vaccinated you should be ineligible for nhs care, state education, welfare benefits, state provided care etc.

I find this mindset far more frightening than covid 19.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

DGRossetti

Iwalkinmyclothing
I suppose similar consequences to refusing any other vaccines. What are those?

Death ?

God, don't give some people ideas. They'll be lining up to terminate those refusing the vaccine on the grounds that it endangers life not to have it.

I may have been misunderstood.

The ultimate consequence of refusing to have a vaccination for a disease is death from that disease. An inefficient, but definite example of evolution on a small scale.

There also needs to be an understanding that some people just cant have vaccinations. Due to medical issues I cant have them, all this talk of excluding people who arent vaccinated from society would be discriminatory, if enforced against people who cant be vaccinated.
Fwiw I'm not against vaccinations and I think they are important, I'm just weary of taking peoples choice from them and of punishing others for something beyond their control.

@DGRossetti, no, I understood you quite well, thank you

@romdowa

There also needs to be an understanding that some people just cant have vaccinations. Due to medical issues I cant have them, all this talk of excluding people who arent vaccinated from society would be discriminatory, if enforced against people who cant be vaccinated. Fwiw I'm not against vaccinations and I think they are important, I'm just weary of taking peoples choice from them and of punishing others for something beyond their control.

My DW has multiple sclerosis, and there was one flu jab which was strongly contraindicated a few years back on account of the base that was used ... (googles)

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20171793/

It's a worry that it might be compulsory. I am not anti-vax I have had all of mine as have my kids.
I would be very very wary of a new vaccine. If it was compulsory to continue teaching I would have to consider my options very carefully.

[quote Iwalkinmyclothing]@DGRossetti, no, I understood you quite well, thank you [/quote]
Ah, sorry if I came across wrong. I've used up my smiley quota today.

@romdowa it’s for exactly that reason why vaccination for those eligible should be mandatory. Because some people can’t have the vaccine due to medical reasons yet they still have a right to life and to contribute to society. People who can’t have the vaccine should be protected by people who can have it, doing so.

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

There are a number of countries worldwide who require vaccination before accessing certain services e.g. state education. For example the US, not normally considered totalitarian.

Covid is a little different to normal too. Spreads quickly and can kill or leave with serious issues. It's a public health emergency in a way other vaccinated diseases are not currently.

So I would not be surprised if vaccination were compulsory before accessing certain services unless you had a valid reason not to.

So for example you could choose not to vaccinate your children, but they would not be permitted to access state education so you need to home school. Or for example you might not qualify for certain insurance (e.g. private health care or holiday). Or maybe you would not be able to board a plane.

I don't know. The whole thing is still hypothetical. I just find the refusal to vaccinate with no valid reason a bit offensive to those dying, left with health problems, still shielding and those vulnerable. Decisions have consequences.

Wow. Some of the opinions on here are more dangerous than the virus. Compulsory vaccine for medical care/education etc...so much for a free democracy.

Very very few careers could they even consider making compulsory and even then would be treading a tight rope. Flu kills hundreds of thousands in the world...not compulsory in most settings, so why would this be.

The whole thing is still hypothetical. I just find the refusal to vaccinate with no valid reason

But a non-zero risk (which all vaccinations carry) isn't "no valid reason".

Is it ?

@MoreW1ne

Wow. Some of the opinions on here are more dangerous than the virus. Compulsory vaccine for medical care/education etc...so much for a free democracy.

Very very few careers could they even consider making compulsory and even then would be treading a tight rope. Flu kills hundreds of thousands in the world...not compulsory in most settings, so why would this be.

I agree that compulsory vaccination is a very bad idea. But countries across the world haven’t locked down and devastated their economies and societies just for the flu.

If they finally have a chance at the normality provided by the vaccine, many will do everything they can to prevent their citizens from refusing it.

In some countries your children need to have received specified vaccinations before taking part in certain activities.

There are some jobs (even in the UK) where certain vaccinations are mandatory; as has been said, no "jab", no job.

There can be restrictions on travel ( certain states sometimes demand certification that you have been vaccinated against the likes of Yellow Fever before allowing you entry).

I don't think it should be made compulsory. It should definitely be optional. I think most people will take it though.

The guardian report says 16% will "definitely" or "probably" not take it.

So some of that 16%, the "probably not" respondents, may well take it when the time comes (I imagine they could change their minds if they felt it was safe or could be persuaded by a good Gov campaign.)

I would not like to see vaccination essential for travel insurance or school attendance or anything else for that matter as that is a slippery slope that as a society we should not want to go down in a democracy.

Why is compulsory vaccination not possible in a democracy? Lockdown apparently was.

Either we can all be selfish (in which case why should I keep social distancing etc) or we can’t (in which case why else is it ok for other people to get the vaccine and not you?)

The compulsory for some schools may be dependent upon the health of the students. If there are some children attending who are vulnerable, the school may want to put in measures to protect them, similar to banning all nut products brought onto the premises.x

Health insurers will also exclude any conditions that may be a complication of any vaccine too, just in case there wasn't enough FUD going on.

I think you would be surprised at the flu vaccine uptake in the NHS, our local trust was just 50% and not all of them will be frontline staff, but a lot of staff do refuse it without repercussions.

Not comfortable with a vaccination with minimal testing to be honest. It seems very rushed and while I appreciate that people want to return to normality, this could cause all manner of problems if not tested properly. I would be interested to see how side effects were monitored and analysed if they do roll this out quickly.