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Is the reopening of pubs currently the biggest risk of spreading Covid further in England?

91 replies

annabel85 · 02/07/2020 18:16

It's all well and good if all the measures are applied but social distancing and alcohol do not go together. If there's two things that make Brits lose their heads it's sun and alcohol. At least with sun if people are outdoors the virus is less virulent.

There'll be plenty of pubs that just let people do what they want and there'll be no shortage of people who will just do what they want anyway. And it's not like going to Primark where you're in for 10 minutes and then leave. People spend hours in pubs and even if they sit in the same place they still need to use the loo several times more often than not.

Opening them on Saturday under a big publicity drive just exacerbates the issue, rather than a low key midweek opening. It'll be chaos over the weekend. I certainly won't be going to a pub on Saturday.

OP posts:
netflixismysidehustle · 03/07/2020 14:35

Restaurants and bars have been open again for a while in both Spain and Italy.

Do they have a culture of getting really drunk?
I know that Liverpool won the Premier League so don't know if there's other football matches being shown in pubs but I don't imagine drunk excited footie fans social distancing?

conveniencestore · 03/07/2020 14:49

If people start drinking more, if they do catch Covid-19 they will probably be iller. Alcohol lowers immunity. Many of the hospital regulars in normal times are heavy drinkers. Same will apply to Covid-19. It is rather irresponsible to burden the NHS with the consequences of unnecessarily heavy drinking, but that is what happens.
Any extra mixing of people in an indoor venue will increase the virus spreading by droplets in the air (main transmission route). So not just pubs, but restaurants opening too will increase the infection numbers.
I know this is not happening for the good health of the nation, but for economic reasons. Dubious ethics and morality issues all round, but I guess some people's mental health is also dependent on pubs and restaurants, but the fact remains that you are more likely to catch and spread Covid-19 inside. It does actually also spread via intestinal route, so public loos (such as in pubs and restaurants) will also increase infections.

conveniencestore · 03/07/2020 14:51

But actually in answer to the question in OP, holidays and airplane travel and airport crowding is also a very big risk due to close proximity of hundreds of people in a plane with recycled air and shared loos (could infect hundreds of people at once who may only be symptomatic a week or two later).

HeIenaDove · 03/07/2020 15:24

inews.co.uk/news/consumer/england-pubs-restaurants-reopening-super-saturday-live-again-need-money-463730?utm_source=%3Fito%3Dsocial%7Ctwitter%7Ctw_theipaper

England pubs reopening: ‘We want people to be able to live again — and the cash will come in handy’
Social distancing will be in full force as inns across England reopen — but restaurants may suffer
author avatar image
By Katie Grant
July 3, 2020 1:34 pm

When The Bell Inn pub reopens in the Berkshire village of Aldworth on Saturday, its regulars will find a few changes. There will be no chatting at the bar, or indeed, anywhere within the Grade II-listed building. Customers will be asked to take their drinks outside to allow people to observe social distancing rules.

Plastic cups are being used in lieu of glassware, new toilets have been installed outside (people will be asked to follow a one-in, one-out system) and payments will be made by card machine, which might prove tricky given the village’s unreliable internet reception

We will just have to bear with it,” says Heather Macaulay, the proprietor.

We have had to go with the flow and keep people safe. We want people to be happy and be able to live again – and of course the cash will come in handy.”

The Bell Inn has a long history and Ms Macaulay is determined it will not be brought to an end by Covid-19. It has, after all, been in the same family for more than 200 years – seeing off a 19th-century typhus epidemic in the village, Spanish flu and two world wars. The building itself dates back to 1340, just before the Black Death ravaged much of Europe.

When she last spoke to i in March, hours after the Prime Minister ordered pubs, bars and restaurants to close to help slow down the spread of the virus, Ms Macaulay vowed that her business would survive and the community would have “a real celebration when we open the doors again”.

It is largely down to her willingness to try new things that, 15 weeks later, she is able to reopen on the first day that pubs, restaurants and hotels in England are permitted to do so, providing that they comply with Covid-19 safety measures.

The UK Government recently changed its two-metre social distancing rule to “one metre-plus” in England but The Bell Inn is sticking to two metres: “We are just interested in customers and staff being safe. Whatever it takes, that’s what we’ll do,” says the pub’s 84-year-old proprietor.

Mrs Macaulay is among the millions of Britons for whom Covid-19 poses a high risk, so she will be talking to customers “from afar” while her son and daughter-in-law perform front-of-house duties.

“I will be in the distance, giving them a wave,” she laughs.
Drunken yobs’
Ashley McCarthy, the landlord of Ye Old Sun Inn in the village of Colton, North Yorkshire, said it was “heartbreaking” when Boris Johnson ordered pubs to close on 20 March, but, like Mrs Macaulay, he was determined to keep his business going.

“This will be a hard time but we are made of strong stuff in pubs. We will get through this,” he told i at the time.

At the start of the crisis, Mr McCarthy opened a village shop inside his pub, selling essential goods such as milk and kitchen paper, though since lockdown restrictions have been loosened, trade has slowed.

While he is relieved to be able to start pulling pints again, he is being more circumspect than Mrs Macaulay, and is waiting until 16 July to reopen his pub. Initially, it will only be open from Thursday evenings to Sunday afternoons, with a limited food offering

We will be watching everyone else from this Saturday, we just want to see how it goes,” Mr McCarthy says.

He hopes that by delaying opening, he will avoid attracting the hordes of “drunken yobs” that many in the industry fear will descend on England’s pubs this weekend.

“A lot people are expecting New Year’s Eve en masse,” Mr McCarthy says.

He hopes that by delaying opening, he will avoid attracting the hordes of “drunken yobs” that many in the industry fear will descend on England’s pubs this weekend.

“A lot people are expecting New Year’s Eve en masse,” Mr McCarthy says.

More outdoor seating
In the meantime, he will focus on getting the premises “spic and span” once more.

“We have been getting the pub ready this week, painting, sorting out tables, seeing what we can physically fit in, and doing up outside,” he explains.

When it comes to observing the 2m or 1m-plus rules, the 16th-century building is “a bit in the middle”, says Mr McCarthy, adding: “A lot of the rooms are small. In some rooms we will do two metres and some we’ll do one.”

Providing the weather is sunny, an expanded outdoor seating area will help to make up for revenue lost by having fewer tables indoors.

Closing is easier than reopening’
While pubs with lots of outdoor space can expect trade to be brisk, weather permitting, restaurants – which typically have fewer seats outside – might struggle. Andrei Lussmann, who runs six branches of Lussmanns Fish and Grill in Oxford and Hertfordshire, will reopen two this weekend before the rest make a staggered return.

“Closing a restaurant is much easier than reopening one. It’s almost like a brand new business opening,” he says.

At his St Albans restaurant, Mr Lussmann has had to halve the number of diners he would typically accommodate to allow for social distancing. Although it has a healthy number of bookings – 60 for lunch today, 85 for dinner – Mr Lussmann fears that he will end up making a loss.

Staff affected
He is also concerned at the toll that the pandemic, lockdown and being furloughed might have taken on his 120 workers, and how they will react to being propelled back into such a fast-moving, intense environment after so much time away.

He says: “It’s very sexy to say everyone can open on 4 July, but let’s take a step back and make sure the staff will cope.”

Mr Lussmann will urge staff and customers to follow safety measures, but he is not certain that diners will appreciate the measures he has introduced.

Eating out is all about feeling you are away from the chaos of the world,” he says.

“Customers eating in restaurants are going to be totally inundated with safety measures. Many of these are designed to look good but might scare the bejeesus out of customers and make them feel like they are eating in an operating theatre.”

HeIenaDove · 03/07/2020 15:43

www.redonline.co.uk/food/a33121025/pubs-bars-restaurants-reopening-lockdown/?utm_campaign=socialflowFBRed&utm_medium=social-media&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2a8hDTFkTABVFu9J4HgomcIQCxeWqkyIJvHSXoeJtuWeZmSBNDybqHRis

Venues limiting groups meeting inside to two households. Outdoors or in beer gardens with social distancing measures in place, six people from any number of households can meet
One-way entry and exit routes with queuing outside pubs and bars to reduce congestion
Masks should be worn when entering some venues
Tables pre-booked online for some pubs and bars with time limits in place once at the venue
Standing at the bar and live music not allowed
Contact information taken from one person per party to allow track and trace
Table service only and a reduced food menu. Condiment bottles replaced with sachets, along with apps for ordering food
Signage telling customers what they can and can't touch, along with limiting the number of people using the toilets at one time

HeIenaDove · 03/07/2020 15:51

Why the government specifically said some pubs in England could open from 6am on July 4
Many were confused after a spokesperson for Number 10 said that pubs will be allowed to reopen at 6am on July 4. It appears that the decision was made to prevent bars and pubs from hosting midnight parties as soon as the new lockdown rules take effect.

SissySpacekAteMyHamster · 03/07/2020 15:55

One good thing about the new measures, at least the pub bore won't be able to stand in his usual spot commenting on everything!

conveniencestore · 03/07/2020 16:00

Unfortunately the theory of the rules may stack up, but the reality will be different. Even in a hospital, there may be one person charged with ensuring each person entering puts on a mask, no-one is making sure people continue to wear these inside. On the news this morning, one industry specialist being interviewed said that 'publicans are not police' and that they should not be expected to police the new rules, so I think we can see this turning into a shambles.

HeIenaDove · 03/07/2020 17:05

From Twitter.

twitter.com/toonster1977/status/1259052101264605184?s=20

Toonster1977
@toonster1977
·
May 9
Covid 19 has claimed lives throughout the globe our NHS hasn't been over run people are blatantly ignoring the lockdown regulations and Miriam scumbag gargoyles wants the PM dead utterly repulsive #MiriamMargolyes

Same tweeter today.

twitter.com/toonster1977/status/1279080801884426240?s=20
Toonster1977
@toonster1977
·
9m
I'm getting shitfaced tomorrow at wetherspoons tomorrow and feasting on burger and chips too can't wait love wetherspoons go Tim Martin Flag of EnglandThumbs upFlag of United Kingdom

conveniencestore · 03/07/2020 17:23

As a pp said, some of us will be very embarrassed to be English this weekend (this country is a crap circus, frequently uttered around here).

TorysSuckRevokeArticle50 · 03/07/2020 17:30

Just been reading the Wetherspoons FAQs, it doesn’t seem that they support the measures. I would imagine there will be plenty of other pubs with a similar outlook.

They will be operating the contact tracing piece by asking people to fill in a form and drop it in a box on their way out.

The FAQ for “ Do I have to complete the form?” is “ While it is neither a legal requirement for you to provide this information when visiting our pubs nor an insistence by us that you do, NHS Test and Trace is an important tool for the NHS in the fight against the spread of COVID-19 – and we encourage all customers to complete a form.”

So No then.

It goes on like that, they won’t be having pre-booked tables, or people on the door managing the flow of customers, and are clear that they have no responsibility for enforcing group size or social distancing.

www.jdwetherspoon.com/contact/faqs/covid19/uk-coronavirus-covid-19-infection

saltycat · 03/07/2020 17:40

Restaurants together with pubs that serve food have been open in ROI (Ireland) since last Monday. Table service only, social distancing of tables, one in one out to the loos, An hour and a half max time allowed.

I have friends in Dublin and they said it seems to be working fine, but the weekend might be a slightly different story. The Police are prowling the busy spots for breaches of the rules too.

Pubs, bars, etc. have reopened all around Europe for weeks now, so it is really down to individual behaviour as to how it will work out in UK.

MorrisZapp · 03/07/2020 17:46

Alcohol has been available to purchase throughout lockdown. Does nobody have social media? Wine and gin o'clock memes ahoy, from day one.

Rosiesma · 03/07/2020 17:48

On the news this morning, one industry specialist being interviewed said that 'publicans are not police' and that they should not be expected to police the new rules, so I think we can see this turning into a shambles.

It's only going to be a shambles when people refuse to stick to what's in place in order for the venue to be open, and make up their own rules. Which they will, because in general people believe that customer service overrides everything, including the law and health and safety.
Like I said in a pp - the customer is always right, but where's that going to fit in now? They don't want to adhere to the measures put in, then what? Staff and publicans are not respected enough by the general public to police this, they'll be laughed at at best.
We saw it in shops and supermarkets when they needed to change the way they did things, people creating because they were a bit inconvenienced, taking to social media and the good ole "no common sense!" Phrase. It's not going to be about one person's view of common sense, it's about the measures needed to be able to open and offer the service in the first place. And it is never, ever the customers that behave like twats that get the fall out, it's always the venue and the staff.
People need to be responsible for themselves and start realising they are grown ups who shouldn't need to be policed by anyone when going out for a meal or a drink FFS!

conveniencestore · 03/07/2020 17:56

Also I think airplane travel in significant numbers is actually the biggest risk. Each flight has the potential to be a superinfection event. Then each person off that flight has the potential to create multiple further superinfection events. It is not really about the countries the passengers are travelling to or what they do when they get there. The single biggest and very significant risk is the airplane. That is the single biggest mistake the government is making in the current round of relaxations of restrictions. The massive risk of hundreds of people being enclosed tightly together in close proximity and same air can only be mitigated by strict quarantine measures, which this government has never supported or enforced.

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 03/07/2020 17:58

Sounds like the perfect toxic storm brewing! "Care homes" may prove to be lesser Covid incubators compared to the potential of packed bars and pubs (pretending to social distance prior to intoxication) as peoples from countless households mixing and merrily spreading joy and potentially highly contagious invisible disease with no cure in equal measure!

I am big on cocktails and a true fan but now is still not quite the right time to do it in public in enclosed spaces. I do appreciate the economic and social balance equilibrium but health still takes precedent over wealth for owners and food and wine leisure sector workers.

Some large city park located bars and cafes I witnessed already resemble a meeting of recently released imprisoned guinea pigs.

Enjoy at the right time when less daily Covid community infections and fatalities. Possibly only target opening in selected less Covid impacted towns etc first to test the appetite and risk?

Cheers and stay safe!

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