Is the reopening of pubs currently the biggest risk of spreading Covid further in England?

[annabel85]

It's all well and good if all the measures are applied but social distancing and alcohol do not go together. If there's two things that make Brits lose their heads it's sun and alcohol. At least with sun if people are outdoors the virus is less virulent.

There'll be plenty of pubs that just let people do what they want and there'll be no shortage of people who will just do what they want anyway. And it's not like going to Primark where you're in for 10 minutes and then leave. People spend hours in pubs and even if they sit in the same place they still need to use the loo several times more often than not.

Opening them on Saturday under a big publicity drive just exacerbates the issue, rather than a low key midweek opening. It'll be chaos over the weekend. I certainly won't be going to a pub on Saturday.

And? Are you saying it won’t spread if outside? Bullshit. I bet you were one of the ones demonising the beach goers, love.

And yet a significant number of the new clusters in the US have been traced to bars in multiple states, while researchers and epidemiologists have said they have seen no uptick in infection or significant clusters linked to the protests or marches.

I do think alcohol will play a part in a rise in infections. Even just a few drinks lowers your awareness and people unintentionally will get closer to each other. Saying that though with track and trace up and running and tight distancing controls in the pubs maybe these new infections will be managed? I drink myself and would love nothing more than to meet up with friends on a lovely summer evening for drinks but I'm not going to the pubs any time soon.

It's not compulsory. If you don't want to go, don't. No one will mind what you do.
I prob won't go this weekend but might go to our local one evening next week.

To an extent yes although if people have to prebook a table and sit down, it's not the same as crowding into a bar.

Our village pub is taking it very seriously. You have to book. Tables are spaced out. Table service only. Its the town pubs that may be a problem.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I do wonder if part of the thinking is that one way or another people will gather to drink and it is better for them to do it in a partly controlled environment than at illegal raves.

I don't think you can compare going down the pub for a drink with a rave tbh. People don't go to illegal raves to have a pint.

It's going to rain here on Saturday. People will not be drinking outside socially distanced - if the rain is light they will be huddling under any little bit of cover that they can find.

Nah, its fine. We 'll all stay home forever. Fuck the bar owners and the brewers and the musicians, all the barstaff, who cares? Sod the economy, none of it matters! As long as we are all SAFE!!!

With due respect Billy I'm not responsible for keeping breweries afloat. I will do my absolute best to assist the economies recovery in other ways. We had a nice takeaway earlier and I support my independent coffee shop I don't think its safe to be drinking inside. Thats my personal choice.

Whilst I don't understand the need to open pubs over other pass times, I do think that they won't create a resurgence. Tables have to be spread out, only family groups can sit together plus many I've seen locally are maximising their outdoor spaces. It's not like people can go and meet all theot mates for a bender.

The idea of packed bars isn't a reality because they're limited on numbers by square metres in addition to the other precautions above. I can't see how the risk is massively different to going to busy town centre supermarkets.

Again to reiterate, I'm not sure pubs were a priority we needed, but I think on the whole a lot of bars WILL enforce the rules as best they can or, if like my local town, just not open.

Its the town pubs that may be a problem

The staff at my local Tesco in the town centre are dreading it They have three pubs near them in the same road and a Wetherspoons 3 mins walking distance. Some of the pub goers tend to go in that supermarket and kick off when they have been drinking.

Ouside that very Wetherspoons two years ago just after an England
World Cup game. They surrounded her car.

www.essexlive.news/news/watch-braintree-england-fan-falls-1693318

Is it only 1 in 1700? We worked out that between us, our parents, all our friends, everyone that they knew, we all knew about 20,000 people. Hardly anyone had even had it, About 3 deaths.

The deaths in our borough have been 223.

Don't we all need to get it eventually?

I'm surprised at how few of the pubs I the town I live in are opening this weekend.

I have no intention of going, but a colleague has booked in to four pubs for Saturday. I'd rather stay at home for now.

@TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I do wonder if part of the thinking is that one way or another people will gather to drink and it is better for them to do it in a partly controlled environment than at illegal raves.

I think this has actually got a lot to do with the decision. Without pubs people are gathering in public places, no safety considerations, massive fights etc. At least this way it can be controlled.

Is the reopening of pubs currently the biggest risk of spreading Covid further in England

no, the continued bad practices around the lack of social distancing in some factories, clothing sweatshops and meat packing plants is.

Indoor vs outdoor transmission.... www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/transmission

"In a study of 318 outbreaks in China, transmission in all cases except one occurred in indoor spaces [173]. The only case of outdoor transmission identified in this study involved two persons. However, outdoor events have also been implicated in the spread of COVID-19, typically those associated with crowding such as carnival celebrations [174] and football matches [175] suggesting a risk of transmission linked to crowding even at outdoor events. However, exposure in crowded indoor spaces is also very common during such events."

In the US, most of the protesters wore masks. This also is PROVEN to greatly reduce infection - many protests used social distancing (if not all the time then some of the time).

There's a map of where the hotspots are, the PHE have released it.

The outbreaks are not in coastal areas or in London. The outbreaks are in areas with high poverty, cramped overcrowded conditions, large BAME communities and industrial/manufacturing jobs (ie textile and meat processing).

Still let's carry on buying cheap meat and cheap clothes and ban those kids from playgrounds.

Yes, there will be an increase because of the pubs opening - it's very clear that being indoors for 15 mins with poor ventilation supports the spread of this.

People going to pubs have a choice. People living in poverty don't.

You have to be careful with data. That report saying that there was only one case of outdoor transmission in China - China had it's main outbreak in January, I believe? And the average daily minimum temperature in Wuhan in January is around -9 degrees. I would say an alternative hypothesis as to why there were so few cases of outdoor transmission would be that people were not spending long periods of time socialising outside compared to indoors.

I work in the pub industry. The vast majority of pubs are been very cautious about how they are re-opening. They've removed tables; increased their outside seating where possible: have booking systems; introduced table service; or are only allowing their trusted regular drinkers in. Many pubs, especially the small cosy ones, are not re-opening because they cannot do so safely. Most people going out this weekend will be sensible are just looking forward to meeting up for a few quiet drinks with friends they haven't seen for months.

There will be a few pubs that don't follow the guidelines and they will be the ones making the news unfortunately.

@StinkySaurus Perfect description of a school there.

The plan has been clear from the get go. We all need to get it and 'take it on the chin'.

That’s nonsense.... If that were the case, the Government would have opened up far sooner. We’ve suppressed infections til 3,000 a day nationally - far lower than needed if “protect the NHS” was the only aim. The Government’s strategy is clearly to contain Covid at very low levels until there’s a vaccine. If not, why would they have locked down Leicester?

There will be a few pubs that don't follow the guidelines and they will be the ones making the news unfortunately.

And risk being shut back down again!