Is the reopening of pubs currently the biggest risk of spreading Covid further in England?

[annabel85]

It's all well and good if all the measures are applied but social distancing and alcohol do not go together. If there's two things that make Brits lose their heads it's sun and alcohol. At least with sun if people are outdoors the virus is less virulent.

There'll be plenty of pubs that just let people do what they want and there'll be no shortage of people who will just do what they want anyway. And it's not like going to Primark where you're in for 10 minutes and then leave. People spend hours in pubs and even if they sit in the same place they still need to use the loo several times more often than not.

Opening them on Saturday under a big publicity drive just exacerbates the issue, rather than a low key midweek opening. It'll be chaos over the weekend. I certainly won't be going to a pub on Saturday.

Most people going out this weekend will be sensible are just looking forward to meeting up for a few quiet drinks with friends they haven't seen for months.

Opening on a Saturday doesn't help along with the big build up and encouragement from the government. While many will just want 'a quiet drink with friends' there's a huge, rowdy binge drinking culture in England. The typical Saturday afternoon/evening/night on the high street is wild. There'll be many people going for a big night out or a pub crawl and after several pints won't be interested in social distancing.

It comes back to the adage of relying on the Great British common sense is a fools errand.

It comes back to the adage of relying on the Grear British common sense is a fools errand
The majority do have common sense. Unfortunately the small proportion of people who behave like wankers aren't going away so we're just going to have to work round them.
I don't think some people on here are really aware of what it's like living through years of high unemployment. It's absolutely soul destroying and has massive long term effects. Pubs are being opened to try and save some jobs and businesses.

@feelingverylazytoday

Half a million people descended on Bournemouth beach one day last week because of a heatwave, knowing full well (if they do have any sense) it'd be extremely busy and crowded.

That's just in one region. We're not just talking a small minority who either lack common sense or just don't give a shit.

And the proportion of people who 'lack sense' or 'behave like wankers' goes up immensely when a lot of alcohol is involved, which is a big problem with opening the pubs specifically.

I understand the importance but do think it's either a bit too soon (furlough still covers a few more months) or doing it on Saturday is foolish. Scotland and Wales are a lot more cautious.

The only people going to the town centre pubs around here will be the usual yobs and piss heads, nobody sensible would bother, it's so obvious it's going to be carnage.

Pubs shouldn't be serving people until they're ridiculously drunk at the best of times, let alone now. Unfortunately there isn't really a way to monitor it, but if pubs are sensible and actually stick to the guidelines there isn't any reason it will cause a spike. Here they are just opening the outdoor areas for now, and will reassess the indoor parts in the coming weeks. If it's raining they will offer takeaway drinks and food as a lot have been anyway.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I do wonder if part of the thinking is that one way or another people will gather to drink and it is better for them to do it in a partly controlled environment than at illegal raves.

Since when have people gone to raves to drink !! 😝

The raves around here have been underage teenagers, so I can't see the pubs opening making much of a difference to that.

The economy does need to keep going, but I suspect we will see a rise in cases and further lockdowns. It is what it is, there are no easy answers and whatever action we take or don't take then somebody somewhere is going to suffer. I just hope we do get a successful vaccine soon and we can get on with things normally.

Personally i will not be going to the pub. I rarely go i them anyway. I can't see how safety measures will be done properly. A prime example is most pubs don't wash the glasses properly. How can you safely use thd public toilet. Some people can't even social distance so how are they going to do it half cut. Many people are furloughed as apparently its not safe in the workplace so how is a pub any different.

*Is it only 1 in 1700? We worked out that between us, our parents, all our friends, everyone that they knew, we all knew about 20,000 people. Hardly anyone had even had it, About 3 deaths.

The deaths in our borough have been 223.

Don't we all need to get it eventually*

@Oblomov20 Remember that a significant proportion of infections and deaths are in care homes. That reduces the proportion in the community significantly.

Re the protests, I know in Scotland there didn't appear to be any significant spike as a result.

The raves around here have been underage teenagers, so I can't see the pubs opening making much of a difference to that

Yeah, it's a demographic going to raves that don't tend to go to pubs anyway. They might go to a club (if they can get in) but they're still shut down indefinitely and live music is still banned; so it's not going to stop these raves and parties.

Pubs had to open sooner or later but opening them on a Saturday to a big fanfare sends completely the wrong message.

[quote annabel85]@feelingverylazytoday

Half a million people descended on Bournemouth beach one day last week because of a heatwave, knowing full well (if they do have any sense) it'd be extremely busy and crowded.

That's just in one region. We're not just talking a small minority who either lack common sense or just don't give a shit.[/quote]
Slightly of topic but when the media/ whoever come up with these numbers I often wonder how true they are.
There are 68m people in the uk, was it really the case that 1 in every 136 people made there way to Bournemouth last week.
Make up similar big numbers for brighton/ southend etc and you could get nearly everyone at the beach!

@Keepwarminthisroom

TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I do wonder if part of the thinking is that one way or another people will gather to drink and it is better for them to do it in a partly controlled environment than at illegal raves.

Since when have people gone to raves to drink !! 😝

I fear I am revealing my ignorance of what constitutes a ‘rave’...can you guess I’ve never been to one?!

@Dadnotamum72

It does sound an insane amount but even if it's a very exaggerated number it's still a huge amount of people on just Brighton/Bournemouth beach on one day. There were many thousands just on my local beach that day with the road network in the area grinding to a halt.

Pubs are under strict guidelines. Won't be anywhere near as bad as people are making out. I'm only not going because of the restrictions in place making it seem more like school dinners than a pub.

Brewery owned pubs Won't be taking any chances - in two weeks things will be more relaxed but anyone thinking they can rock up to a pub and get on a normal session are going to be disapointed

The hospitality industry employs millions of people. Including the supply chain, farmers, drivers, logistics.
This entire industry cannot all fold, something must give.
With regards to collateral damage, maybe in a hard way that’s what will happen to save the millions of people on the scrap heap who will die from poverty.

Surely the point of opening pubs (and publicising Cummings exploits, when the govt chose to do so) is to bring the second peak forwards into the summer, so as to avoid it coinciding with the winter flu season.

There's the economic case too.

Win, win.

Individually, you can choose to take part in the second wave, or you can choose to wait and take your chances in the winter, or to try to hold out for a vaccine.

And also our Government have not moved on from the mistakes made in the early days of the disease in this country. Remember Boris boasted about shaking hands with covid patients and minimising the risks. Here Rees Mogg joking that people should go back to drinking a yard of ale to maintain distance whilst also having a large amount to drink? I didn't realise the man had a sense of humour but really, wouldn't it be better for them to reiterate the need to be cautious rather than as time for a party?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-53182194

So to answer your question, from an individual point of view, going to the pub is it one of the bigger risks. Not as big as spending extended time indoors with friends and family who are also spending time indoors with other people.

From a national population point of view, it's a deliberate virus-spreading tactic (as was publicising Cummings exploits, to encourage people to mix more with family and friends), designed to hasten the second wave, (while seeking to keep that wave just below the 'overwhelming the NHS' threshold).

The strategy is surely: promote development of herd immunity by encouraging viral spread, while keeping cases to just below the 'overwhelming the NHS' threshold.

It always has been, hasn't it? Herd immunity. Flatten the curve.

@MinnieMousse

I agree it will be down to enforcement of social distancing which I don't think a lot of pub owners/managers will feel willing or able to do.

It doesn't really matter how much the pub owner or staff try and implement anything, some people just won't. End of story. People need to be responsible for themselves and going to the pub is a choice not an essential. If there's something going on you don't like, then leave. Unfortunately the staff don't have that choice but hey ho.

People have already behaved like arseholes, they're not going to suddenly behave sensibly because bar staff ask them too. People can't even get around the licensing laws we've had since 2003, there's no hope with this, but then the customer is always right after all aren't they?

I think it could be a disaster. Unfortunately, we probably won't know for about 4-5 weeks. If a lot of people go, alcohol will make social distancing, and handwashing disappear. I hope I'm wrong.

@netflixismysidehustle

I'm surprised how English tourists have been welcomed back to places like Spain and Italy when they've worked so hard to get things under control.

I hope the A&E isn't overwhelmed with drunks who have been in fights and injured themselves because of the reopening of pubs.

Restaurants and bars have been open again for a while in both Spain and Italy.

@lottiegarbanzo - back on the glue

Restaurants and bars have been open again for a while in both Spain and Italy.

Ah yes, but they haven't had drunk British holidaymakers there yet. Just wait.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I do wonder if part of the thinking is that one way or another people will gather to drink and it is better for them to do it in a partly controlled environment than at illegal raves.

Since when have people gone to raves to drink !! 😝

I fear I am revealing my ignorance of what constitutes a ‘rave’...can you guess I’ve never been to one?! grin

Drugs all the way innit