To think people need to be released from the idea that they must 'stay safe'?

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

IMO people's heads have been messed with on an absolutely massive scale during this pandemic. So many people seem to be locked into the idea that they absolutely must avoid getting covid at all costs, no matter what, to the extent that they're convinced that if they don't do everything possible to 'stay safe' then they're definitely going to die.

I genuinely think that the extent to which governments around the world have convinced people that the only thing that matters is this virus is a far far far bigger problem than the virus itself. I think governments are too cowardly to say what needs to be said, which is that there is no way to prevent everyone from getting it, and that attempting to prevent it is causing so many other problems that it just can't be done any more.

I think people are being driven around the twist with the idea that this threat is out there, lurking at all times, waiting to get them. It's like a form of mental torture, with people questioning everything and worrying about everything, while the economy crumbles around them.

There is no guarantee of a vaccine or of more effective treatments. There is every chance that covid will still be circulating, along with every other virus, in 2030. You could do everything absolutely 'right' now and still get it next year or in five years.

I get the fact that it was new, unprecedented, etc. But where do we draw the line? When will the acceptance come? When it's too late and there's no way to restore the millions of jobs lost? When economies have collapsed so much that poverty, violence and starvation make covid look like a walk in the park?

Right now theres a pandemic killing thousands of people
There's also the indirect effect of the pandemic killing(or has the potential to kill) thousands of others too. Suicide, poverty, abuse, homelessness, people too scared of covid to seek medical advice on other issues why are these cases less important than those who are a direct impact of covid? There has to come a time when the balance between the 2 is drawn. Agreed not a choice anyone wants to take but the focus needs to be spread further afield

@TheDailyCarbuncle
My point is that expecting never to get it isn't realistic.

I hope not. I would not have a hope in Hell, I can't breathe at the best of times. 😢😢

I am doing my best not to get it. WFH, supermarket deliveries etc. So you are telling me that all this is in vein? That I WILL get it no matter how hard I try not to?

@Porcupineinwaiting

What rubbish you talk.
Go on then point to the research that substantiates your ridiculous claim
A little statistic to drop in here: 1 in 20 people (adults) who contract COVID are still significantly unwell after 3 months. It is not known whether these people will recover a)shortly b) eventually c) never. I think those are not great odds to gamble with. How many other things are people doing that give them a 1 in 20 chance of becoming chronically unwell ?

Seriously people like you just make things up and scare the life out of others. That is rubbish!

@Whoknowswhocares

All reports indicate unreported cases could be ten times as much. Nobody knows but Whitty and Co have estimated it as such.
So that’s 1 in 200.

In fact the Chris Whitty video that was released showed how SMALL the risk was to the MAJORITY of people. The NHS had to be prevented from being overrun with cases and that was successful. In our local hospital there were very few cases - 2 very elderly and one lady recently came out of hospital after 93 days in and another elderly man after 64 days in hospital.... the people I know that had covid recovered fairly quickly.

More treatments are known now, much more information on actual transmission and hence things are relaxing and the country getting back to work....

Name one and explain why it is a bigger concern than sars-cov-2

Mental illness and substance abuse => affects 13% [11-18%] of the world's population.
That's 970 million people. And no vaccine. There are meds to manage mental illness, but no cure. I've lost several family members due to it. I'd be very surprised if I lost family members to CV-19.
The ripple effect of mental illness is frightening. I didn't look up stats for the death rate, but I'm sure it is substantial.
And although it is not transmittable like CV-19, there's a strong genetic component.
And it's largely stigmatized in our respective societies.

I agree with the OP.

I at no point said we should just give up on trying prevent people from getting the virus. I'm saying that because the virus is out in the population, it will continue to spread and giving people the idea that it must be completely avoided no matter what the cost isn't fair, because it isn't possible.

You're right that we're not going to be able to get rid of it completely. The trouble is that to stay at whatever infection rate is low enough to keep the economy, education and hospitals going, we need to keep acting as if we are trying to eradicate the virus (and then because it's impossible to do that perfectly, we'll be left with low levels of infections). But releasing people from the idea that they need to stay safe really does sound like you're saying you want to release them from the idea that they need to take precautions.

The problem as I see it is that people wanting to continue very strict measures for everyone for an unlimited time and scared to leave their houses seem to believe that a delay will halt the disease and we can get to a point where the risk has gone.
The reality is we can delay the spread, but have no current way to prevent it. That’s the cold, hard truth right now.

Whilst delaying that inevitable spread, countless other ways to suffer are being endured or stored up. Businesses failing, medical needs in other areas deferred,mental health trashed, kids education on hold, social services not tracking at risk children etc etc etc.

With none of the measures actually having the effect of STOPPING covid, merely delaying it

[quote Whysomanyexcuses]@Porcupineinwaiting

What rubbish you talk.
Go on then point to the research that substantiates your ridiculous claim
A little statistic to drop in here: 1 in 20 people (adults) who contract COVID are still significantly unwell after 3 months. It is not known whether these people will recover a)shortly b) eventually c) never. I think those are not great odds to gamble with. How many other things are people doing that give them a 1 in 20 chance of becoming chronically unwell ?

Seriously people like you just make things up and scare the life out of others. That is rubbish![/quote]
She’s not talking crap.
Seventh paragraph here www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/15/weird-hell-professor-advent-calendar-covid-19-symptoms-paul-garner
In fact, the Covid 19 Zoe project is showing 1 in 10.

And Boris is not my country's leader, but it does feel like a shark circling because there is so much we don't know. What we do know is that it is a virus. We've encountered viruses before and I have every faith in the men and women working on a vaccine.
A previous poster called COVID "Schrodinger's Virus." I thought that was very apt.

For my age group the risk isn't death but the risk for long term health issues including some sort of CFS is ever more seemingly high. I now know 3 people who have been ill for over 2 months with a post viral issue. These can last years and be life changing. (I know from bitter experience 20 plus years my life has been made shite by ME). That is more devaststing than being unemployed ( been there too).

OPs like this are so incredibly arrogant. To blanket describe a whole population as cowering in their homes.

OP - just for you, here is an (incomplete) list of people who have been out working during the crisis. Putting themselves at risk of getting Covid-19.
Nurses
Doctors
Paramedics
All other hospital staff
Care home workers
Teachers who taught the DC of essential workers in schools
School support staff
Hotel staff for the hotels which accommodated NHS workers and the homeless
Police
Airport workers
Delivery drivers
E-commerce packing staff (Amazon/Asos orders etc)
Public transport workers
The fire brigade
Construction staff
Park keepers
Supermarket workers
HGV drivers
Ferry workers
Passport control
Immigration
Undertakers
And many more

You know what some people were doing? Staying at home because the government told them to. Keeping the R number from rocketing.

All of the people I see out in the parks, in shops and travelling around in cars. Are they a mirage? They are getting on with their lives as best they can under lockdown.
Yes, some are shielding because they don't fancy becoming ill and possibly dying. Others are home a lot because they've been furloughed or lost their job.
Give your head a wobble.

With none of the measures actually having the effect of STOPPING covid, merely delaying it

It is far far better to have, say, a thousand hospitalised cases of covid spread out over a year than to have them over six weeks. It isn't the case that, if we can't eradicate the virus completely, we might as well let lots of people get it in a short period of time. Letting lots of people get it at once quickly is not going to help people's mental health, businesses, education or non-covid nhs treatment. For the sake of all those things, we needed the hammer of lockdown to get infections down, and now we need to still keep trying so that rates stay down.

Also tbh if my choice is to stay living a small life for a couple of years skint, bored but alive I would prefer that than lose mine or others lives. My Mum and her family survived the Nazi's, starvation and 50 years of communism and still are happy to have lived than not. Not everyone died in their country probably simialr to covid numbers here percentaage wise

I’m someone who has followed all the rules, had supermarket deliveries, not been to the shops and only seen my parents at a distance. I’m not terrified but I am very cautious. This is a new disease and one that seems complicated. As others have said it’s not only the death rate to worry about but also the number of young healthy people who seem to be having very long recoveries. More and more seems to be coming out about the long term effects even of mild cases. New drugs and treatment are being discovered with time so personally while I think it’ll be here for a long time to come I’d rather get it further down the line when more is known about it and treatment is more effective. The drug that was licensed for use a few weeks ago has been proven to save a statistically significant number of lives of those who are very ill in hospital. I just hope over time more effective treatment will be found. It was also initially thought just to be a respiratory disease but we now know it effects blood clotting etc so treatment is being adjusted accordingly. I also feel that lockdown was started too late, lifted too early and not enforced enough which has left us with high levels of the virus still circulating. It would be much easier to return to more normality, as they have done in other countries if our base was lower before lifting restrictions. I feel a duty to do my best not to get it so I don’t pass it to someone more vulnerable. I also worry about the impact of it on me and my family and the longer it takes to get it the better treatment will hopefully be. Though I absolutely agree that the effects of lock down and social distancing are extremely worrying too.

It's had an economic impact due to lockdown, not due to the virus itself. There is a lot of evidence to indicate that a very very high percentage of people infected with covid - up to 70% - experience no symptoms or symptoms so mild they get over them in a couple of days.

The flu has similar levels of asymptomatic/low symptomatic rates, but for those who are symptomatic, the risk of severe illness and death is significantly higher than seasonal flu.

I understand you believe the whole thing has been overblown, and can’t see the point in providing the vaccine to younger people.... but you’re overlooking the fact that, irrespective of whether you are right or wrong, most of the country/world is simply not at the place you are, and the chances of them not bothering to vaccinate large numbers of younger people because they are relatively low risk is unthinkable given:

a) we take vaccination for measles seriously even though it’s infection fatality rate is 1 in 300,000;

b) It can still be dangerous to many people who aren’t old, even if only a relatively small minority... US hospitals and intensive care units are nearing capacity in many States despite their latest surge being not appearing to be close to the peak and the average age of those infected being young/middle-aged;

If a vaccine becomes available then vaccinating a high enough proportion of the population to achieve herd immunity is what will be aimed for.
You don't just not vaccinate low risk groups - then they would still be out there passing the virus on.You want to reduce the level of infection in the population as much as possible.

Mental illness and substance abuse => affects 13% [11-18%] of the world's population

Again, not transmissible. It doesn't kill people with exponential increases.
And it doesn't kill 13% of the population, but much less.

If allowed to go unchecked, those numbers would be dwarfed.

I haven't seen a proper comparison yet.

This is not to say that only covid matters, but it was an emergency that required extraordinary measures to get any way under control.
The future won't be constant lockdown, but at this time, covid is a bigger danger than substance abuse.

I completely understand your concerns about the economy. However, it seems counterproductive for us to aim for a thriving economy when we cant enjoy it because we are all dead. There needs to be a balance, we need to try different ways to keep the economy going as well as keeping people safe.

A little statistic to drop in here: 1 in 20 people (adults) who contract COVID are still significantly unwell after 3 months. It is not known whether these people will recover a)shortly b) eventually c) never. I think those are not great odds to gamble with. How many other things are people doing that give them a 1 in 20 chance of becoming chronically unwell?

Whysomanyexcuses this isn't "rubbish", and Porcupine is, if anything, being fairly cautious with the figures.

Most people who catch covid won't die - though that is, of course, of little comfort to the friends and family of those who do. But if you do catch covid, then it's a lottery as to whether you will be completely asymptomatic, or you will be ill for a week or two and recover - or you will, like me, be fairly ill still more than three months later.

I don't know on any given day if I am going to be well enough to work, to take a walk, or do the washing-up and cook. There are times when "sitting on the sofa and watching TV" is too much for me. I am immeasurably better than I was in April and May, but "no longer largely bedbound" is a fairly low bar to clear. I don't know when I will be well, if ever. There are countless, countless survivors of covid just like me.

I would agree OP except I am a lone parent to a 9 yo autistic DS and am undergoing treatment for breast cancer. I am terrified of catching it and we are staying in. I have no idea how things are going to be going forward and it's pretty frightening!

More treatments are known now,

Are they? What are the treatments that are known now?I've only heard about dexamethasone, suitable for some not all cases, reportedly saves one life in eight but peer reviewed study still not been released yet.

The only other potential treatment is remdesivere,but the jury is out and the US has bought most of that anyway, so even if it was ever shown to work, it wouldn't be available here.

So what are these more treatments that are available?

Its quite interesting watching the beginnings of a new normal play out. Viruses and pandemics are only going to become more common as the population grows and will be responsible for massive wipeouts as the population tops out at around 90 billion.

One to the coldsore virus (Herpes Simplex) which crossed the blood brain barrier, infected her brain and killed her over the course of five long years

I had recurrent bouts of facial impetigo for nine years. Ive posted about it on the face mask threads. Ive been clear for five years and 8 months but because it was caused by a combination of stress and humidity , i was told by GPs to let my skin breathe. No foundation or face powder, So i stopped wearing these in 2007 Which i only wore once in a blue moon anyway. Still got impetigo 3 more times (5 in all) There is a risk of sepsis from this which is why GPS have expressed concern that PHE have advised that antibiotics not be prescribed for it any more But because this risk does not come from Covid i should suck it up and take the risk for the greater good.

HeIenaDove

What happens if you need to see the GP or go to a hospital during this? Would they allow you to not wear a mask?

Hooves I dont know Its an excellent point though , i need to find out Im not going to go to the hairdressers though i would love to get my roots done. Because of the requirement to wear a mask in a humid atmosphere.

Thank You for taking it seriously Only you and one other poster has done that so far and the other poster has been through the same as me.