To think people need to be released from the idea that they must 'stay safe'?

[TheDailyCarbuncle]

IMO people's heads have been messed with on an absolutely massive scale during this pandemic. So many people seem to be locked into the idea that they absolutely must avoid getting covid at all costs, no matter what, to the extent that they're convinced that if they don't do everything possible to 'stay safe' then they're definitely going to die.

I genuinely think that the extent to which governments around the world have convinced people that the only thing that matters is this virus is a far far far bigger problem than the virus itself. I think governments are too cowardly to say what needs to be said, which is that there is no way to prevent everyone from getting it, and that attempting to prevent it is causing so many other problems that it just can't be done any more.

I think people are being driven around the twist with the idea that this threat is out there, lurking at all times, waiting to get them. It's like a form of mental torture, with people questioning everything and worrying about everything, while the economy crumbles around them.

There is no guarantee of a vaccine or of more effective treatments. There is every chance that covid will still be circulating, along with every other virus, in 2030. You could do everything absolutely 'right' now and still get it next year or in five years.

I get the fact that it was new, unprecedented, etc. But where do we draw the line? When will the acceptance come? When it's too late and there's no way to restore the millions of jobs lost? When economies have collapsed so much that poverty, violence and starvation make covid look like a walk in the park?

@TheDailyCarbuncle can I assume you haven’t been personally affected by this virus? And by that I mean actually suffer from it yourself, see a loved one affected fighting it, being miles away from a loved one who is dying alone in a hospital or care home or unable to attend a loved ones funeral and left to grieve alone?

You can't eradicate the virus from a country until a vaccine. Impossible. People going on about how well Sturgeon is doing, You do realise they have the third highest death rate in the world? Its atrocious and no one mentions it

There is a balance. We should be going about our lives, but with care.
Anyone that has had first hand experience of this virus will tell you it is not a good way to die!! So if we can avoid it, we probably should.

Complacency is fine until we are back up to 1000 deaths a day, and the economy is in tatters again with a second lockdown.

So yes I don't think we should live in fear, but should we just crack on and party like it is 2019? No, unless you want see the death rate rocket again.

The US eased restrictions early and they clocked up 55,000 infections yesterday alone, and are busy closing things again.

www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Brazil and the US have put their hands up, it would seem.

I recommend that you look at what happened and is happening in both countries.

While their situation is bad, neither have put their hands up.
The New York area has managed to get it down significantly, while states like Florida are seeing an increase.
Brasil is equally diverse.

But this is what happens in a discussion of people who haven't looked at the data and just throw thoughts at the wind.
Like comparing covid with non-transmissible diseases.

If everyone gets is gradually and slowly then everyone who needs medical care can have it.

Even the best medical care can't save everyone and some who have survived ICU are left with serious long term complications. People with impaired immune systems ( due to cancer etc) are at a very high risk of not surviving even with the best medical care, as are the elderly and vulnerable due to other conditions to a lesser extent.

Hand washing, masks and social distancing aren't hard to do. It's about protecting everyone, not just yourself.

Indeed, not hard at all, but far too many people just won't do it, hence why the lockdown was needed in the first place, i.e.to stop the exponential growth.

There is a balance. We should be going about our lives, but with care.
That's what a lot of people are doing. Unfortunately there's now a growing group of people who are gearing up to get to the pub/go to busy places/ don't want to wear masks / don't follow social distancing and who snugly declare anyone taking reasonable precautions is some paranoid quack, scared to leave the house.

On the way into a shop yesterday I watched a family ignore the shop assistant request they used hand gel. It's hardly a big ask, but you know I'm guessing they've read something on Facebook and now know they can't contract or spread the virus

@HeIenaDove if you are struggling to find hibiscrub in shops check horse tack shops. I used to buy it from there a lot as used it on the horses

I'm with you op.This virus isn't going anywhere, it mayhave gone in some countries although unless you have tested every resident it just means no one has tested positive recently I wouldn't take a rushed through vaccine either. Although I very much doubt that will be here before winter.

I work on a hospital ward and am dreading covid mixed in with winter bugs. But at the same point summer is the best chance we have of living a little before it does! I'm not talking cramming packed beaches or a holiday abroad, that's not for me just yet. But I will be going on a U.K. break if possible and the odd meal out. Plus seeing friends/family carefully. I've done nothing for 4 months but work, food shop and walk so I'm ready to live a bit more now!

YANBU. I knew from the start we’d be likely to get it and we all did (DH, 4m DS and I). You can’t eradicate every risk when you leave your house.

I have previously confident friends reduced to quivering wrecks. Afraid to go to the shops. Haven’t set foot in a supermarket for months. Too nervous to go out for a drink. Don’t feel like they can eat indoors around others yet. It’s shocking.

Not to mention being horrified that anyone would go do something like eat out (with distancing and hand hygiene) even though it’s been made ‘legal’. A whole group of my friends are shocked and horrified I’m going for a meal next week 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think we cannot live our lives in fear but need to accept others will and some are at very high risk.
I think a corrupt government has completely undermined cooperation with guidance.
I know the data being spewed out is inaccurate and many deaths haven’t been recorded.

It’s about the money and hiding corruption and Brexit catastrophe in the apron strings of Covid. We’ve not, as a Nation, followed international best practice; we’ve not been timely in our responses and businesses likely to profit croneys have been prioritised.

This weekend sees hospitals employing many additional staff and ambulance trusts fearing they won’t cope with demand. Tories paying to tweet out propaganda to encourage excessive drinking whilst thousands are grieving. Whole thing is appallingly managed.

CherryPavlova

Which part of that tweet prompted excessive drinking?

People need to be left to make their own decisions. Anyone who is worried or scared about it should do what they feel is right for them, whilst the rest of the people can carry on with their lives. Hygiene (washing hands etc) should be a part of our lives anyway. Yanbu.

@Sharkerr

CherryPavlova

Which part of that tweet prompted excessive drinking?

The tweet was tasteless and crass. They clearly accept that as they deleted it.

The govt has handled this really badly.

They swing wildly from minimising to lecturing, every measure is a fortnight late and the statistics are not reliable.

@babba2014

People need to be left to make their own decisions. Anyone who is worried or scared about it should do what they feel is right for them, whilst the rest of the people can carry on with their lives. Hygiene (washing hands etc) should be a part of our lives anyway. Yanbu.

Oh grow up, we have rules for every other major issue e.g. seatbelts

I agree the government has handled the pandemic badly.

But I don’t think they deleted it because they realised it was tasteless and crass, I reckon it’s because they realised there’s a host of people out there who’ll get offended at the slightest thing and it turned out to be more hassle than it was worth for the negative publicity. If you look at the thread regarding that tweet you’ll see the vast majority thought it was fine! But sometimes even a small minority being outraged can turn something from a good idea into not worth the bother.

I think the fear is perhaps part of a wider social philosophy, in recent years media has pumped out much on "self improvement, exercise, drink wheat juice" basically if you get ill it's your own fault for not being superhuman, which is nonsense, and it has become a huge preoccupation and even competition for many.

Then along comes Covid-19, and it could, could, even if you are superhuman healthy, kill you or permanently damage your lungs, and there is no defense accept to try and not catch it.

I think the philosophies are intertwined.

On a positive note, Oxford vaccine crew announced they might have a semi-vaccine this week which might not prevent you catching it but would lessen the most severe effects, which is better than nothing. Also I believe vaccine development laboratories worldwide have agreed to release the formula to any factory able to make vaccines instantly when one becomes available. So there is hope in iradicating Covid-19, and surely now continuing research on any future coronavirus strains will be funded.

Totally agree with the vox pop thing. There is some random mother on TV right now wittering on about how it's not SAFE and how she is disinfecting everything and how her childern won't be going back as it's not SAFE and yes she'll pay the fine.

Why are they giving her air time? Nobody cares. Yes let's hear from the professionals, and the organisations which represent lots of parents or other interested parties.

Also agree that the media and the government have a lot to answer for. MIL is in the at risk group in that she is over 70, but otherwise fit and well. She has not left her house/garden since 7th March. She is completely and utterly convinced that even going for a walk will kill her. And lots of other people too. Going to Sainsburys - even at a quiet time - is totally out of the question, until there is a proven vaccine.

There are lots of people who struggle with anxiety, obsessive thoughts and have disordered thinking about "germs". You only need to look at any thread from a couple of years ago about homemade cake and there is a minority professing that they never eat anything homemade, how you can't be too careful about hygiene, people are manky and dirty and germ-ridden. That thinking has become mainstream and people are being told that bleaching your food packets isn't bonkers, it's sensible and falls under "you can't be too careful". Ditto repetitive handwashing - positively encouraged, as was perceiving the outside world as dirty, contaminated and dangerous. You can see how people who ordinarily teeter on the edge of anxiety have been tipped over the edge and most people who would ordinarily be telling them to rein it in a bit and that there's really no need to baby wipe your door handle 20 times a day are validating the bonkers behaviour.

All this is backed by a poor understanding of science. The obsessives grab a fact like "the virus can survive on surfaces for 72 hours" and translate that into "everything is dangerous for 72 hours and I must bleach everything and not touch anything". The fact that trace amounts of something can be detected after 72 hours isn't nearly the same as "something present in enough quantities to kill you".

Anyway OP I totally agree. This risk isn't going away. There are likely to be other pandemics in the future, that's how viruses work. We need to be doing things like washing our hands, working from home if we can and not getting into other people's faces. But other than that, just get on with it.

I was called selfish and irresponsible by a family member because my DH and I have booked a table for Sunday lunch in a pub this weekend. I've lost my job, we've hardly left the house in 4 months and yet I was told I'm one of the selfish idiots who will cause a second wave. I actually cried - I've felt so low about losing my income and the career I've fought so hard for and was looking forward to doing something 'normal'.

SockYarn if you don’t watch it you’ll see less of it. They do it because they think it’s liked.

I can only listen to R4 now, still a few voices but better than most.

I'm still confused when people say they are shut inside/locked down to protect the shielding
I'm protecting myself (shielding) by WFH, not leaving the house, not shopping, not seeing friends or family etc etc

If you're not shielding you can go out to shops, see people, leave the house, work, go to pubs soon... nobody is protecting me except myself
The lockdown was to stop the NHS being overwhelmed, the shielding were protecting themselves by well, shielding

corabel I hope you have a lovely evening out.

Your family member is an idiot with the critical thinking skills of tarmac. As are so many, re Covid, and voting for Brexit. I have definitely seen an overlap with CV terror and Leave means Leave. These are people swayed by slogans, not evidence.

We are not a well-educated population.

In the early days of this, it was made very clear that treatment would go to "those most likely to benefit", and one of the criteria for not being likely to benefit was being over 70. Then there was the warning about comorbidities - and a high proportion of people over 70 have acquired at least one of these. If you've been told a) that if you get it, you are likely to develop complications and b) you are less likely to be treated, it is far from irrational to do whatever you need to to try to avoid getting it.

How about we remove all restrictions for anyone willing to sign a waiver that they will not ask for NHS treatment if they catch the virus? You willing to sign up, OP?