Anyone following what’s happening in the United States?

[Redolent]

A lesson in how not to reopen.

20 states are seeing significant increases. Some like Arizona, Florida, California and Texas are breaking records of positive cases and covid hospitalizations. ICUs almost full in Texas. Indoor-dining restaurants and bars have been open for a month or so in some of these states. This is still the first wave for them ...

Will be interesting to see if they lock down some states again. It seems inevitable for Arizona (26% of those who had a Coronavirus test today were positive, which is insane).

Info from NYT:

www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

Just looked at Worldometers for US daily cases.... At nearly 32,000 it’s the worst since 1 May!

Worldwide it’s the worst day yet for new cases with 176,000 with 50,000+ new cases in Brazil!

He can spout all he likes, but individual Governors can do what they want.

But he can (and has) control who gets federal funding and equipment.

He outbid the states for PPE and ventilators from suppliers, then distributed very much in favour of red states with some getting more than they asked for or needed, whilst blue states got less.

He has threatened states that he will pull funding if they aren’t nice to him, or who do mail in voting, or are sanctuary states.

He is very much at fault for what the states are doing.

America should be doing better . Their population is Much less densely populated than us .,

Some states are huge with small populations.

Compare just New York with death rates in uk and we are doing much better.

That’s why comparing countries is futile really .

I think the spikes in USA are getting scary .

US cases are up but deaths still seem to be decreasing.

As well as the time lag mentioned elsewhere, it’s important to drill down to States rather than looking at the US as a whole as the population density means some States are very badly hit and some aren’t. The more rural states are less affected so will pull down an average. This overall average makes the situation seem better than it is. For example, when the sheer number of early cases in NY (over 1600 deaths per million) started to reduce substantially, it made the US curve look like it was flattening, despite there still being a high number of deaths in other states. The US deaths per million is 367 but 13 states have far higher numbers than that.

NY had 703 new cases yesterday and 65 new deaths. CA had 3392 new cases and 63 deaths. That number is sure to rise.

And wtaf with the Oklahoma Trump rally.... You literally couldn’t make up a better breeding ground for super-spreader event

Ticket holders are being told they must sign a waiver in the event the catch Covid, they can’t sue.

It is actual proof he does not really care about his base. Hopefully they will see that.

The USA and Brazil are classic examples of what happens when you let politics control a virus and not science. Trump wanted the country back on its feet before the election. Well he's screwed that up. You need to realise that the situation is twice as bad as we think it is already. Every day they delay locking down, the situation will get so much worse. How long before retired residents in Florida start fleeing to other parts of the country?

Brazil is just screwed. We are about to see a nightmare situation in the next fortnight.

India is in trouble as it can't lock down. This is going to overwhelm India like the Spanish flu did.

We are entering a whole new phase with the virus. In the same way that the European disaster flattened Wuhan, the American disaster will flatten Europe.

This isn't going to be pretty.

The other thing that worries me is they seem to be pumping steroids into everyone.

Steroids suppress the immune system. There are times you want to suppress the immune system. There are times you don't.

Am I the only one thinking steroids could kill as many people as they save if they aren't used carefully?

@newjez I'm absolutely certain that doctors will have weighed up the pros and cons of steroid use.

Newjaz
A steroid (dexamethasone) has been shown to reduce deaths in hospitalised patients who require oxygen or ventilation. Google the Recovery trial for more information.

@user1471428628

Newjaz A steroid (dexamethasone) has been shown to reduce deaths in hospitalised patients who require oxygen or ventilation. Google the Recovery trial for more information.

I know the science.

It just worries me that it is being used large-scale without the results and guidelines from the testing.

There are times you want to suppress the immune system. There are times you don't.

I am astounded at the fact that people think politics affected Brazil and USA but not here. It is not a coincidence that brazil usa and britain have handled this situation badly. The similarity of the leadership of those 3 countries is obvious.

@Langsdestiny

I am astounded at the fact that people think politics affected Brazil and USA but not here. It is not a coincidence that brazil usa and britain have handled this situation badly. The similarity of the leadership of those 3 countries is obvious.

This! Three countries led by posturing, corrupt, lazy fools.

Newjez it's being used for very poorly patients who's own immune system is killing them as it has gone into a dangerous proliferation reaction. These were the patients the hospitals were most struggling to treat.

It's never been suggested as a general treatment. In fact the reason people are on steroids in the community has put them on the shielding list. Drs are aware of the risk of steroids.

It is interesting that deaths are still declining there. Until deaths spike I don’t think people will pay attention. And there is some evidence that the virulence of the disease is decreasing as time goes on so more cases may not actually mean more deaths. As long as deaths don’t increase they will get away with this.

Honestly, with my tin foil hat on, I have wondered whether Trump wants this so he can semi-ligitimately delay the November election. I wouldn't put it past him.

@Langsdestiny

I am astounded at the fact that people think politics affected Brazil and USA but not here. It is not a coincidence that brazil usa and britain have handled this situation badly. The similarity of the leadership of those 3 countries is obvious.

Agreed. All underpinned by a kind of crude machismo and overconfidence. Egypt’s Sisi is another one (not governing much Western coverage). The true death count is 10x higher than projected, crisis of doctors dying due to lack of PPE, and the military blaming the citizens for being selfish and not complying.

Brazil is horrendous, over 50,000 new official cases a day. Deaths are rising.

I was reading about a farm in Florida where they tested all the Hispanic workers and 90% were positive! Obvious could be an isolated pocket but if there’s any possibility that this is being repeated at other locations it’s bad news. A group of friends went to a bar in Florida and all 16 in that group caught it in the bar that night......plus lots of others in the bar they didn’t know.

No. Not the slightest bit interested.

@AncientandPregnant

It is interesting that deaths are still declining there. Until deaths spike I don’t think people will pay attention. And there is some evidence that the virulence of the disease is decreasing as time goes on so more cases may not actually mean more deaths. As long as deaths don’t increase they will get away with this.

Sadly by the time you take action based on deaths, you’re absolutely screwed. It may well be true that older people have been protecting themselves more, but I’m not sure how they’re going to keep this out from making its way through care homes.

UK had 10 deaths only on 12th March. When cases in the community where absolutely exploding.

There are times you want to suppress the immune system. There are times you don't.

@Newjez The immune system is very complex, it isn't just one big thing, various cells respond to a threat in different ways, steroids work on the some of these cells, and can prevent an over response which can be more harmful than the intial threat.

It isn't about 'pumping' people full of dexamethasone, it is about realising that given to the right people at the right time, at the right dose, it greatly improves their chances of recovery.

The death rates are very hard to compare because countries are testing at different rates (USA still not testing every hospital admission) and recording deaths differently. Eg in the U.K. if a person tests positive then it's recorded as Covid even if they have end stage cancer and outlived expected survival by 6 months and it was not the cause - other countries only if it was proven to be the cause of death. Belgium is recording c19 without even a test if it's suspected hence higher rates. Excess deaths is a better measure as it includes people who died because their medical treatment was cancelled due to Covid, very important to factor when deciding on lockdowns ditto suicides due to bankruptcy etc

🙄 did I say at any point we’ve ‘done well’? No, as another poster said, we are currently doing OK. Not brilliantly but not dreadfully. The death rate is tracking downwards, cases are stable and not rising despite us opening up & the NHS is not remotely overwhelmed & never really has been.

Was the whole thing terribly managed? Yes. We’re many deaths preventable, yes. Is it awful people have died, of course it bloody is.

But currently, as a country, the situation is fairly stable. Hence why the scientists downgraded our risk level to 3.

Get off your judgy high horses!

What is Louisiana doing right ?

I for one am not judging. I am having a conversation. I find it grimly interesting that three men with such a similar approach/character have produced this situation in their respective countries. Deeply inadequate men.

@Derbygerbil

And wtaf with the Oklahoma Trump rally.... You literally couldn’t make up a better breeding ground for super-spreader event...

Tens of thousands of people - many middle-aged or older - crammed into an indoor venue for hours, most probably eschewing advice to wear masks, shouting and hollering, in an area with sharply increasing Covid cases! Are there any boxes not ticked?

And to top it, Trump’s got another rally in Arizona -fast becoming the next major world’s new number one hotspot - next week! If he tried he couldn’t do a better job of spreading it.... Utter lunacy!

Social Darwinism?