Every child in every year group will return to school in September, Education Secretary Gavin Williamson has said.

[itswhereitsat]

I didn't catch the briefing but read the above comment in the news. The big question is, did he say whether children returning would be part-time or full time? Or did he just gloss over that bit?

So could staff wear visors and pupils wear the fabric masks? If they're doing that in other countries I can't see why we can't
Of course it'll be a pain in the bum trying to get them to keep them on but if it's treated as another part of uniform code then it'll be less of a pain in the bum that the part time staggered starts idea

Either way, there's no easy option, and "send everyone back like it's a normal September 1st" isn't going to work either, so to me the PPE seems to the option that will be most simple and effective long term

Just another load of 'hot air' from GW and the government I'm afraid.

No government plan, no prior notice of announcements.

As an LA we are doing the planning. This will be emergency situation based planning so lots of options researched, legal and safe, to implement in schools in September.
One of the 'situations' will be applied closer to the time to match 'virus needs'. (ranging from fully open, to not open at all).

I think there are so many issues not addressed by the govt.

Bubbles cannot work in Secondary or FE. At my school, the "sides" do not exist at all, and all the year group intermingle for lessons . Due to vertical tutoring and the house system, all years intermingle daily.

At A level, no bubbles could ever work.... all students are sitting different subjects. So the school with a sixth forms of 500+ have a real problem, as do colleges.

Then you have the problem of getting the students to school. My daughter's school is rural, with over 90% arriving my busses (mix of public and ones put on by the school). These are jammed with about 70 students from different year groups all sat together. So again, this cannot work as a Bubble. From one end of the catchment is 15 miles approx, so you couldn't pick up the students in Bubbles either.

Then there's the issue of food and break times. How can you keep children separate but using the same facilities at break / lunch? You could try staggering break / lunch times, but you are going to need serious time to rethink school timetables, which have largely or mostly written for the year.

So much has just not been thought through... yet the govt is not leaving schools a lot of time to do this.

🤣🤣🤣 at the idea wait staff will be in the same position as teachers. As said above they will have one way systems etc.. I won’t repeat the same thing as was said above. A family member’s pub is planning on reopening they are planning all sorts of differences - only ordering online/via app. One way system in pub, spaced out tables (only outside initially but if allowed inside far apart.

My questions was not who knows a friend of a friends uncles sisters best friends nephew but who HERE slamming teachers for trying to go back safely is going to be going back to work completely normally when it involves close contact in a room for prolonged periods of time without any protective measures in place?
So far no-one shouting for schools to go back it seems.

Someone upthread has given really detailed information about different teachers/schools/doctors etc. I think that explains clearly the differences.

We have over 1000 children, in different sets/classes/groups that move around the school en made every hour. They mostly travel on packed public transport to get to us (buses and trains). Our school is old. Classrooms are small. Windows don’t open more than about 1 cm. How my lessons used to work would need to be totally changed if they are to sit at a desk and we minimise sharing equipment etc... I am happy to do this, plan for it, I want nothing more than to be in the classroom teaching my students. BUT I also want it to be safe for me (I have underlying health conditions) and I want it to be safe for them AND their families (many live in multigenerational households).

I find it bizarre that that teachers are so the enemy here for trying to do this safely for our students, their families and every other person reopening schools will affect (transport workers etc...)

The suggestion from some here seems to be scrap SD entirely in schools but keep it everywhere else. Perhaps if education hadn’t been treated like a political toy and massively underfunded for some many years there would be easier solutions or more options!

So much has just not been thought through... yet the govt is not leaving schools a lot of time to do this.

I think this is the crux.

There are so many possible permutations of what will be needed over the coming months and schools are in the impossible position of having to try and plan for all of them.

Back in September as normal - full timetable, plus catch up needed, particularly for current year 10 and 12

Back in September but in bubbles/part time - new timetables worked out, possible reduced subjects, plans needed for current year 10 and 12 and exams, plus for current year 9 and 11, plus home schooling lessons

Plans needed to accommodate.possible local lockdown or quarantine of groups/ whole school if necessary - on line arrangements, IT provision and so on.

Every option here needs time to plan and implement and also money and resources to sort them.

I work for a major supermarket, within a few days of lockdown they had leapt into action - hand sanitizer was everywhere, signage and one way systems introduced, vulnerable staff identified and policy in place to isolate them, screens and shielded erected - this is because they have resources, logistic teams, probably contingency plans already in place, necessary equipment already purchased and ready to go. Schools aren't in the same league as this. They don't have resources, logistic teams and crisis planners at their disposal. Having been a school governor and worked closely with several heads and slts who were excellent at their jobs I can confidently say that none of us had any experience or knowledge of running a school during a global pandemic.

The leadership and facilitating for this has to come from government imo. They need to provide resources and expertise to schools.

I'm so so sick of this
My questions was not who knows a friend of a friends uncles sisters best friends nephew
It is so patronising.
Many people, including me, have close relatives, people they live with, who are out working right now, and will be fully open for business in 2 weeks, not 10 weeks!
Your friends pub may well have all those things in place IN JULY. We are talking about SEPTEMBER.
And I personally have not "slammed teachers" for wanting to wear ppe or made out they are the enemy. I think the suggestion of visors for teachers and masks for secondary kids is a good one.
There's really no need for hysteria and martyrdom. Schools will have to crack on one way or another, practical solutions will need to be found BY SEPTEMBER.

The thing is, schools have learned the hard way that it is absolutely pointless to plan anything before the government guidance is issued, because they have been bitten so many times in terms of wasted time, effort, money and worry.

Guidance is expected in 2 weeks (last time they said this, secondary schools had t wait 4 weeks, and the initial guidance for primary schools was changed 42 times after being issued).

Term ends in 4 weeks. Certainly in primary, many if not all staff who can be have been in school working full time from 1st June to accommodate those year groups allowed back, on top of home learning and keyworker childcare and working through the last 2 holidays.

That means that in terms of being paid to work, schools have a maximum of 2 weeks to plan for what happens in September. f course, the vast majority will willingly work unpaid through the summer to plan and implement it, that goes without saying. However, being EXPECTED to work through another holiday unpaid is very different from it being ASKED for in a reasonable manner.

Schools will have to crack on one way or another, practical solutions will need to be found BY SEPTEMBER.

The difficulty is, it is very difficult to plan until you know what scenario you are planning for! The DfE seems to change it's mind every week or so about what it wants schools to do, then makes public announcements with no prior warning for schools and says the guidance won't be available for another two weeks. What sort of way is this to run a country??

Secondary schools in most areas will not be able to return until the public transport issue is resolved. Around here buses are still running on a slightly reduced timetable and the maximum number of passengers allowed on a double decker bus, that normally carries about 100 people during the school rush, is 20. I’d like to see the government’s plan for actually getting our students into school. At the moment no school around here has more than a quarter of year 10 and 12 in school and we’ve all staggered our start and end times and yet children are still finding that they can’t get a space on a bus. There needs to be some joined-up thinking here. Some of the planning for getting back can be done by schools and HTs but there are wider questions about infrastructure that the government need to solve. They need to solve the issue of having enough buses and drivers to allow children to get to school, we can’t do it. There is no point us opening and starting lessons if the kids can’t get to us.

It’s very easy to say it’s an “ambition” to get all kids back to school but it doesn’t just happen by magic. Starting up again is far more complex than closing down. Until I see some actual planning I’m taking this with a massive pinch of salt. The government has form for making big promises and talking up their ambitions and intentions and then shifting the blame onto others when what they promised doesn’t materialise because they hadn’t actually done any serious planning.

Schools will have to crack on one way or another, practical solutions will need to be found BY SEPTEMBER.

Practical solutions are almost impossible to plan for for without the all important guidance though. If that doesn’t arrive for 2 weeks and then comes in 42 different updates like the June 1st announcement did (one appearing on Bank holiday Monday the week before we were reopening!), heads’ hands are tied.

I suspect many schools won’t be opening full time to all children in September no matter what people say on here.

My dc’s school told the year 10 students in this week they fully expected to be open for all in September days before the briefing. I suspect many have been putting in long hours working out the how for different scenarios for quite some time.

@JesmondDene

Just another load of 'hot air' from GW and the government I'm afraid.

No government plan, no prior notice of announcements.

As an LA we are doing the planning. This will be emergency situation based planning so lots of options researched, legal and safe, to implement in schools in September.
One of the 'situations' will be applied closer to the time to match 'virus needs'. (ranging from fully open, to not open at all).

Does your plans take into account that the level of online learning in too many state schools will never get their y10 to a point where they could sit a GCSE so will you prioritise 100% of year 11 before thinking about the rest?

The points after you about public transport do you think schools will hire their own transport?

It's worth looking at this article (a more detailed analysis of something I have seen before), and thinking about the relevance of the office example (in particular) to schools.

english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-06-17/an-analysis-of-three-covid-19-outbreaks-how-they-happened-and-how-they-can-be-avoided.html

Assuming the government gets schools back by saying social distancing doesn't apply in schools (and this is realistically the only way all students can be in full time). There are 2 main issues that need resolving before September:

1. Transport, many students use normal public buses, if social distancing applies on those it will stop students getting to school. Schools providing own transport is prohibitively expensive.

1. Testing, ideally we need a way of saying who does or doesn't have covid in minutes set up in schools. Otherwise you will just have a repeat of March where large numbers of students and staff are off due to symptoms. This means lots of cover lessons where little learning takes place. And if there are positive cases potentially increased spread due to combined classes and supply teachers moving between schools.

I cant link to it from my phone but those interested might want to look at the already published NI guidelines which might suggest thought processes in education circles.

Here is my idea for September in primary:

I think we should go for all kids on a rota in Sept, with teachers having 2 bubbles of 15, but actually obviously a bubble of 30.

Proper data kept on all illness stuff during that time - might involve testing regularly to see for asymptomatic stuff too. No rises in anything by end Sept, then start mixing bubbles more - streaming, intervention groups etc. Another 2 weeks. Then if nothing of note happens, we aim for everyone back after half term. Including vulnerable kids and adults. Shielding kids and adults are a different matter, and it possibly needs to be looked at nationally. Buddy them up, proper online tutoring with zoom stuff like online school. Give those families the tech to be able to do it.

This is what furlough can be used for - part time childcare for a month.

If cases can be linked to school transmission, then the whole thing needs a rethink, but if not, then that's a tick in the box.

It means that September doesnt really work for learning, but socially and mentally things are better. It does mean that even if there are second wave issues, that we know schools are ok and providing staffing is there (cos staff are going to get it from other places, or schools anyway), they can stay open.

Northern Ireland:

Here

Thanks cant

20 work days left to get this plan sorted before breaking up for summer. Year 10 one took about 3-4 weeks at our place to consult parents/staff and sort all the risk assessments and paperwork.

Let's hope Gav gets his plan out to us soon aye...

“It is so patronising.
Many people, including me, have close relatives, people they live t is so patronising.
Many people, including me, have close relatives, people they live with, who are out working right now, and will be fully open for business in 2 weeks, not 10 weeks!”

As do I. All of which have things in place to protect people. None of which are going back as exactly before?

Also none of which are shouting hysterically about schools reopening in September in ‘get over it style’.

I don’t know if any job has that has been allowed to go back/reopen without some protective/different measures in place. I’m happy to be corrected though?

I certainly can’t think of any jobs where social distancing is impossible but no PPE is offered!

Look at the precautions hairdressers/beauticians/tattooists will be taking - and gyms and dance teachers aren’t even close to
returning yet.

I really don’t think clear visors would scare children - they are less alarming than face masks and are becoming common place in shops and public services anyway.

@Apple1971 @MrsHerculePoirot
Those working on psychiatric wards are doing so with no social distancing and very little PPE - a flimsy face mask if available at most (here, anyway).

Those working on psychiatric wards are doing so with no social distancing and very little PPE - a flimsy face mask if available at most (here, anyway).

How many patients are you in close contact with on a daily basis?

I think if secondary are to return with all pupils full time they will have to:
Group children into bubbles of 30 to 35 roughly based on academic ability.
Keep these bubbles in one room for all lessons and to eat a packed lunch they have brought in.
Teachers move around school giving desks a wipe down between lessons.
Double lessons would make sense.
Some subjects will not be possible ie PE or science experiments.
Each bubble will have a short toilet break timed to avoid meeting other bubbles.
Arriving and leaving school will be staggered to avoid mixing.
No one is saying just send them all back as normal but I think we can provide a decent education by making these sort of adjustments.