Places actively discouraging children

[Allhallowseve]

Just wondering what other people opinions of this are?
I follow a few local garden centres as we visit quite regularly under normal circumstances. Since they have reopened they are advertising as being open but asking people not to bring children.
I am just finding the way children have been treated throughout this pandemic absolutely awful .... I don't know if it's just me?
Yes I know things could be far worse for them and people are shielding not able to really get out. But garden centres actively discouraging children from visiting?!
Adults are able to meet up in outdoor areas yet it's incredibly hard for children to do the same. Adults can pop out to shops now , grab a coffee maybe do a couple of things they enjoy . However the play parks are padlocked and taped up . Most school year groups are not going back until September , all playgroups , clubs and classes are cancelled. Yet they are the least vulnerable group in society and seem to have been forgotten.

I don’t understand this to be frank.
We have been working on the basis that kids are okay, it’s adults gathering that are the problem. Our transmission rate is really low. The kids aren’t great spreaders. There has been the odd incident of a kid testing positive and the school gets shut down but in all cases no one else around the kid (some immediate family excepted) gets it from them, not the kids who have been sitting next to them in class for the past fortnight, not the other kids they have been sports training with a few nights a week, not the girlfriend/boyfriend they have been heavy breathing on, not the teachers etc.

So kids have been able to get together at school, sports etc but adults have not been able to get together (so no adults at kids sports apart from coaches who have to socially distance from each other but not the kids, no adults at schools apart from teachers/support staff who have to distance from each other but not the kids etc).

So for us, kids would be welcomed to run around together at the garden centre but adults would be iffy, restricted numbers on entry, would need to distance etc. We are doing really well in regards to transmission so it’s not like it’s a strategy that’s outrageous.

@StatementKnickers
"By the way, parks are open, it's just playgrounds that are closed! Take a ball or kite with you."

Oh parks are open are they ? Many thanks for that wonderful little snippet of information.
I hadn't noticed that being as we have been there every damn day for the past three months . I have three boys with bloody wonderful imaginations truth be told they don't need the slide, swings etc to have a good time . Also cheers because obviously I hadn't thought about a ball , kite , picnic. Not sure if anyone has noticed but we live in England where it has been thunderous downpours for many of the past few days . Before anyone wants to come back with a clever comment just stick a coat on them they will be fine - well I would , have done and will do again however it's not great with a three month old .

We do not kniw that's the case HoppingPavlova because there has not been enough testing to show what the pattern of transmission via (possibly asymptomatic) DC in schools to the rest of their household might be. Because until schools closed, most aduits still had outside contacts and no-one was running down exact source. Even testing for mild/moderately symptomatic people was not universal.

So we simply do not know the role of schools and of DC in transmission (and studies whether optimistic or pessimistic are caveated about limitations of data)

Two people max might be a preferable rule.

Trying to keep (limited) access to those visitors who are most likely to be spending is sound business practice.

Garden centres are not good for days out at the moment. Cafes and play facilities are closed. Onsite gift concessions may not be fully open.

I don't think loss of a trip to one specific shop is going to harm a child. More and more is opening up, so those who are lucky enough not to be currently medically vulnerable will probably find something open to DC nearby.

*A lot less education was needed then to get a job in comparison to now.

That's just not true.*

It is actually. Common sense tells you that when 5% of the population were graduates, the vast majority of jobs didn’t require a degree as a minimum qualification. It’s pretty bloody obvious that more jobs will make that requirement when 50% of the workforce has one. Most of today’s graduate jobs were open to people with A levels when I left school.

I’m hoping this will be a bit of a reset on higher education, with fewer jobs open only to graduates and kids deciding that it’s not worth accruing £50k debts.

RancidOldHag but we do know that that’s the way we are doing it and our transmission rate is extremely low - approx 7300 cases with approx 100 deaths in a population of 25 million. We do know about kids and transmission from school to household given they are in school/sporting activities etc but adults have been locked down unless essential workers. They are not spreading it amongst each other or bringing it home to families when one at a school is diagnosed. No, this has not been studied but our community transmission is extremely low using this model so it gives a good level of confidence.

The problem is not really that kids desperately need to go to the shops but that they are being excluded from normal life.

You can do the 'ooh in the war' comparisons all you like but the truth is that the trauma children experienced did affect them and was recognised. That's what the education reforms of the 50s were about. Anyone who didn't experience it themselves is relying on stories from relatives who are likely to gloss over the actual emotional pain. I'm not suggesting being excluded from shops is the same level of painful by the way, but it is certainly not something we should be aspiring to.

I still don't think the garden centre is being discriminatory against children. Using very simplistic figures a small garden centre had calculated that with social distancing rules etc they could have 40 people through the door in one day. If a family of 4 turn up, one parent 3 children they will count as 4 not 1 of that 40. So surely it makes sense that the owner would prefer 40 separate paying adults rather than 10 families.

Also with respect to PTSD I think 30% seems very high for children in this country. If lockdown had not been imposed I am sure there would have been more deaths, so there would have been more children who would lose grandparents and possibly parents, and other parents could be long term sick, so life would not have been nice for them without lockdown either.

My 7yo is really quite down in the dumps desperately missing children other than his fortunately close in age DB, missing school, missing sports etc.

We've done walks/ scootering/ the park to death. 8 mile walks are now normal for killing a few hours, but it's hardly top of a child's wishlist for entertainment.

A couple of weeks ago I bought him to do the food shoping in two supermarkets. He leapt at the chance to do something so exciting. There were no queues so no one was deprived and forced to wait, we went straight in. I spent about 10% more because I indulged him with extras like a magazine, a water gun, extra biscuits etc because he was just so thrilled to be somewhere that wasn't his home or a green space. He was more excited to go to a bloody supermarket for the sheer novelty of it and chatting to cashiers than he was over his birthday on a dull day early in lockdown. Going to the supermarket better than your 7th birthday (we did our best with what we could achieve in week 3 of lockdown, and I had at least gone to town before the shops shut in readiness)

It's not particularly about a garden centre or a supermarket, it's the cumulative impact of months of social deprivation and exclusion. No extended family (too distant/ shielding). No friends (too scared of the odds of spread) No school. No playgrounds. No sports. No leisure activities. The zoos only opened because major zoos spoke up and created an outcry about being on the brink of ruin. There are many child-centred businesses that could have opened along with the similar risk of garden centres (farms have good hygiene practice anyway). Families don't know how to balance childcare and work over the summer because there's no clear plan to allow facilities to open and parents to book.

This cumulative blind spot to children and family needs is damaging.

I work hard with my 9 yo whose ASD make him more inclined to anxiety, and he could wipe the floor with half the adult population on logic, joined up thinking and following rules. Naturally introverted, he's not feeling a great hardship- the challenge for him will be adjusting back to a social, sensory stimulating world after 3-6 months of social isolation. DS2 feels it now, but should quickly bounce back to normal albeit with some academic stagnation because he doesn't have the maturity to deal with remote learning.

And as for the war descriptions- they always miss the point that largely people were together with their communities/ families. For all the children with other life shit, there is no external support. That's the long term kicker.

I have been to the zoo today and have to say that all the parents we encountered were doing a great job of making sure their children kept to SD.
I was slightly worried but there was really nothing to worry about... However it cost a fortune for tickets, getting there and a picnic and really not something poorer family's could afford.
I hope they open the parks soon but it would be completely dependent on parents not mixing whilst their children play and stringent hygiene (no dirty nappies in bins etc..) They can police this in a zoo environment (and there were people reminding you to take your rubbish, stay apart and use hand gel) but in parks I'm not sure some parents would bother.

^Oh parks are open are they ? Many thanks for that wonderful little snippet of information.
I hadn't noticed that being as we have been there every damn day for the past three months . I have three boys with bloody wonderful imaginations truth be told they don't need the slide, swings etc to have a good time . Also cheers because obviously I hadn't thought about a ball , kite , picnic. Not sure if anyone has noticed but we live in England where it has been thunderous downpours for many of the past few days . Before anyone wants to come back with a clever comment just stick a coat on them they will be fine - well I would , have done and will do again however it's not great with a three month old .^

Painstaking isn't it op? Honestly, the shite spewed on mumsnet these past weeks.

"Oh you're just a shit parent, you've got no imagination, go find leaves, explore the outdoors, in the wonderful idyllic 50s children were wonderfully happy playing outdoors in all weathers with nothing more than a stick (course they were), in the war, bla bla bla".

Of course it's not the bloody garden centres fault that schools and kids activities are all closed.

But it just shows up the general attitude towards children and their mothers in this country.

I can't imagine my children would be overjoyed to go to a garden centre, but given that they e got quite into gardening during lockdown they might not mind, but more to the point, I, their mother might want something from the garden centre, and as I'm now looking after them 24/7 excluding children also excluded me.

I'd suggest anyone pissed off about being excluded from such places email and tell them that next time they want to lure children in with their Christmas grotto or some other overpriced crap when they want your money, that you shall not be bothering.

If shops are limiting numbers of course they will say no children. Why should people wanting to spend money hang around in a queue while a non spender wanders around the shop?

Where we are the garden centres allow children ?

The stupid bit is that my children add zero risk to the garden centre because they haven't been anywhere at all within 89days 14 days to be exposed to the virus.

They also don't have to social distance from me, so we don't take up 3x the space. We are also one transaction at the till, not three seperate ones.

Hardly a great hazard and inconvenience to the world.

But if a place has worked out they can only have 10 people in at a time, then they will have to count your children in that 10, which reduces the number of paying customers they can have in. They don’t calculate it per trolley/basket they do it per person.

I still don't think the garden centre is being discriminatory against children. Using very simplistic figures a small garden centre had calculated that with social distancing rules etc they could have 40 people through the door in one day. If a family of 4 turn up, one parent 3 children they will count as 4 not 1 of that 40. So surely it makes sense that the owner would prefer 40 separate paying adults rather than 10 families
It's absolutely common sense, but here we are on a parenting board where some people are claiming other parents must hate children for not expecting shops to centre their children during a pandemic.

Saying 'the garden centre has asked children to stay home because they're limiting numbers on site during a pandemic, therefore they just hate children and I shall flounce and ensure my children never visit their grotto or play area ever again' is childish.