Places actively discouraging children

[Allhallowseve]

Just wondering what other people opinions of this are?
I follow a few local garden centres as we visit quite regularly under normal circumstances. Since they have reopened they are advertising as being open but asking people not to bring children.
I am just finding the way children have been treated throughout this pandemic absolutely awful .... I don't know if it's just me?
Yes I know things could be far worse for them and people are shielding not able to really get out. But garden centres actively discouraging children from visiting?!
Adults are able to meet up in outdoor areas yet it's incredibly hard for children to do the same. Adults can pop out to shops now , grab a coffee maybe do a couple of things they enjoy . However the play parks are padlocked and taped up . Most school year groups are not going back until September , all playgroups , clubs and classes are cancelled. Yet they are the least vulnerable group in society and seem to have been forgotten.

@Teateaandmoretea

And actually you are wrong re rights the equality act stops shops from excluding some customers.

No, shops can refuse entry to anyone or can refuse to serve anyone. Obviously if this transpired to be they refused to admit anyone on grounds of race or religion that would be against the law but having a policy of only one person isn't against the law is it?

It might be actually. Go and read up on indirect discrimination. I suspect like mental health issues in the yoing and children’s rights you will ignorantly dismiss It, @hearhooves, but that doesn’t stop it being a concept in UK law.

That’s entirely my point, my childhood was only boring by 21st century standards. In any case, if the worst today’s kids experience is a bit of boredom they won’t really do badly.

@SudokuBook

It might be actually. Go and read up on indirect discrimination. I suspect like mental health issues in the yoing and children’s rights you will ignorantly dismiss It, *@hearhooves*, but that doesn’t stop it being a concept in UK law.

Ok, so post Covid then you would support adults insisting on admission to child based activities then? So, groups of pensioners going to soft play centres say to have coffee and a chat, even if them being in there means fewer children can go in because to say no would be age discrimination?

Everyone demands rights without considering responsibilities.

I agree. The garden centre near to me makes the majority of its money from families with children. They have a mini farm, toy shop, rides and play park to name a few yet they are now actively discouraging children. There are PLENTY of other garden centres just catering for gardeners round my way so there's not a limited choice for people wishing to avoid children.

One of the conditions of shops opening was that they had to be Covid safe. Does anyone know what those rules were?

Otherwise, this is a business decision. If, as some of you are saying, a particular garden centre relies on families then presumably they would allow children in if a) they are permitted to do so and b) it makes business sense to do so.

Has anyone spoken to a garden centre to find out their reasons?

Just and a quick look. There's a large document here

www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/shops-and-branches

which tells shops what they must do. Two points in particular

Encouraging customers to shop alone where possible, unless they need specific assistance.

Reminding customers who are accompanied by children that they are responsible for supervising them at all times and should follow social distancing guidelines.

that seem relevant to this but shops must complete risk assessments and minimise risks to staff etc so presumably not allowing children comes under minimising risk to staff by limiting customers, maintaining 2m distance and so on.

Children have absolutely been ignored during this crisis. My happy, social butterfly DD (age10) mood dropped so fast! I quickly saw how limited social Interaction, no school, friends, gran visits and basically never going anywhere caused sudden MH deterioration. It was awful. I made the conscious decision to bring her out with me once a week to the shops. She was coached on what to expect out shopping and how she needed to stick beside me and not touch everything she saw, using my hand sanitizer etc. I took her to Costco, we had a hot dog and and an ice cream picnic in the car. What a difference in her mood. I get super wound up about this issue. Children's mental health matters and I believe ALOT of kids have and are suffering through this!

alsohuman you said what children are experiencing now is a typical 50s and 60s childhood. Which it isn't buy any stretch of the imagination. You said my 60s childhood was unusual because I listed very ordinary activities like school, youth groups and playing with friends that kids can't do now. Or are we supposed to think at least they aren't going up chimneys or working in cotton mills? Is that really the standard we should be assessing childhood by?

You can ignore what experts say including the children’s commissioners who have raised concerns that children’s human rights are being breached and make out you know better or waffle on about the past if you like , you’re still wrong

I think you've either misread or don't understand the context.
I also can't find any other 'experts' that do say just that. I am happy to read any you have though.

So no, I don't think you get to call people 'wrong' with such certainty based on your own questionable opinion.

Our children are led by us and no way are the catastrophisers not projecting this rubbish on them. If you tell them they're struggling, of course they will be.

That's what supermarkets in my area said - cue outrage because children weren't allowed in. Basically, it's saying the same thing.
Exactly.
There were also threads from people saying they absolutely had to take the whole family to the supermarket because the DC won't be away from mum/dad can't manage the kids alone whilst mum shops, and dad couldn't possibly do the shop on his own.

If someone needed to do an errand and had to have their child then they'd just get on with it, safe in the knowledge that they haven't a choice. The people who are up in arms about how society hates children and children need to go to garden centre for a change of scenery are only doing it because businesses aren't bending over backwards to centre their children during a pandemic.

The people who are up in arms about how society hates children and children need to go to garden centre for a change of scenery are only doing it because businesses aren't bending over backwards to centre their children during a pandemic.

Believe me I am far more worried about the lack of direction of schools and all of their clubs that they actually enjoy being shut. Because children are not being prioritised and instead adults going to garden centres are more important (because that’s how many adults selfishly see it) as is evidenced by this thread

I never saw a reason for garden centres to be closed in the first place - at least for click and collect. Same with DIY places. Not because I have the remotest interest in gardening or DIY, but it seemed silly to stop people doing useful stuff at home/in their gardens if they were stuck at home.

However, children do not need to be dragged around really boring shops because their parents don't know what else to do with them. I agree playgrounds should reopen, I don't agree people should be going on family outings to supermarkets unless absolutely necessary.

I took my son to an outdoor garden centre at the weekend. He said it seemed like a magical world. We forget how long these months must have seemed to children and how limited their experiences have been during them.
We have been on so many walks and played some good games at home but for a bog standard nursery type garden centre to seem like a magical world to a 7 year old... I find that quite sad.

Believe me I am far more worried about the lack of direction of schools and all of their clubs that they actually enjoy being shut. Because children are not being prioritised and instead adults going to garden centres are more important (because that’s how many adults selfishly see it) as is evidenced by this thread

Schools have been kept on restricted opening because of the potential threat of transmission. Things that have been allowed to open are places deemed lower risk. It's not a conspiracy to make children suffer is it?

Plenty of adult services haven't opened - places of work, gyms, hairdressers, physios, pubs, restaurants, theatres, hotels - because they have a potentially higher risk of spread.

Sadly, it is the nature of this illness. It's spread by close contact, so it's not surprising that situations where close contact is unavoidable have been restricted. It's not like government sat down and thought "hhhmmm, how can we best discriminate against children" is it?

I suspect you are talking about the baby boomers who weren’t born during the war.

Why do you suspect that? Do you think I don't know the dates of WW2? I am talking about my own parents' generation - they, and many of their friends who we grew up with as 'friends of the family', were the first of working class families to go to university.

A lot less education was needed then to get a job in comparison to now.

That's just not true.

Of course it was a horrific time but it doesn’t mean kids can be treated worse than adults in 2020

The point is that some posters have been talking about children being traumatised, robbed of their childhood etc. While there may be individual cases of this due to bereavement, for instance, there's no historical evidence that similar if not worse times had this effect on any mass scale.

@Teateaandmoretea

The people who are up in arms about how society hates children and children need to go to garden centre for a change of scenery are only doing it because businesses aren't bending over backwards to centre their children during a pandemic.

Believe me I am far more worried about the lack of direction of schools and all of their clubs that they actually enjoy being shut. Because children are not being prioritised and instead adults going to garden centres are more important (because that’s how many adults selfishly see it) as is evidenced by this thread

It's not more important is it? It's two completely seperate issues.

Schools cannot open (in my understanding) because they cannot accommodate the requirements. That's something the government and schools need to figure out.

It is nothing to do with trying to save the economy by allowing adults to shop in non essential shops. And those shops are not there to replace schools.

This is crazy.

My dad was born before the war, in the East End of London.

During the war two separate homes were bombed, one time his friend and their family were killed, he regularly had to spend nights in tube stations during air raids, he was evacuated for a short time but went home because he had such a bad time there, after the war he then had to do national service oversees - his story wasn't abnormal. That all seems far more traumatic than what has been happening here over the past few months.

During the war two separate homes were bombed, one time his friend and their family were killed, he regularly had to spend nights in tube stations during air raids, he was evacuated for a short time but went home because he had such a bad time there, after the war he then had to do national service oversees - his story wasn't abnormal. That all seems far more traumatic than what has been happening here over the past few months.

Indeed but the point is that the trauma here is being caused by a lockdown that is increasingly completely daft and of our own making. So it’s hardly the same is it as having people coming and bombing us. Trotting out the war is just pointless.

Shops are limited for numbers. They haven't been able to earn for months, their earnings aren't going to return to normal for potentially months. They need to maximise business and counting a child who has little spending power makes no sense financially. People are fighting for their livelihood.
Most places I've seen haven't put a blanket ban on children, just asked if bringing them can be avoided.

Believe me I am far more worried about the lack of direction of schools and all of their clubs that they actually enjoy being shut. Because children are not being prioritised and instead adults going to garden centres are more important (because that’s how many adults selfishly see it) as is evidenced by this thread
Like you, I'm vastly more worried by the government's shambolic handling of education in this lockdown.

I just don't think it's justified for people to be outraged that businesses who have to limit customers in store might say to avoid bringing children. There are many ways to have a change of scenery that doesn't mean carting the whole family off to shops where their presence on store is at the expense of paying customers.

Just admit you’re ignorant and hate children and think the only people who should have any account taken of their well being are you and people like you, @Hearhoovesthinkzebras, this would be a lot less painful.

I’m not here to educate you or anyone else here, there’s plenty of guidance out there on age discrimination and indirect discrimination, you’re free to look it up.

reliefweb.int/report/world/children-risk-lasting-psychological-distress-coronavirus-lockdown-save-children

@Teateaandmoretea

During the war two separate homes were bombed, one time his friend and their family were killed, he regularly had to spend nights in tube stations during air raids, he was evacuated for a short time but went home because he had such a bad time there, after the war he then had to do national service oversees - his story wasn't abnormal. That all seems far more traumatic than what has been happening here over the past few months.

Indeed but the point is that the trauma here is being caused by a lockdown that is increasingly completely daft and of our own making. So it’s hardly the same is it as having people coming and bombing us. Trotting out the war is just pointless.

No you're right. Being kept at home with your family, in relative safety, with toys, TV, internet, able to play outdoors is of course worse than living through the blitz (not including children in abusive situations here).

Just admit you’re ignorant and hate children and think the only people who should have any account taken of their well being are you and people like you, @Hearhoovesthinkzebras, this would be a lot less painful.

None of this affects my well being. I'm shielding so no amount of garden centres or any other shops opening is for my benefit.

I just think it's ridiculous to be claiming PTSD because a child can't go to a garden centre.