There's been around 40 deaths of under 45 year olds with no underlying health conditions.

[mywayhighway]

I'm always amazed how so many people on MN know someone (or often 2) under 45 who've died from Coronavirus with no underlying health conditions.

@Alex50 Well, whether you believe it or not, it's true.

It maybe true but I still don’t know you, some stranger on mumsnet who I don’t even know your name

every year around 12 children die from the flu in the UK. That doesn't make headlines.....

Super, DH and I are both over 45 and we have a young child in infants school but clearly we are old and fat and expendable.

but the number of deaths in under 45s is still very low (under 500 in total) even if you include all those with underlying health conditions

It is a pretty shit life outcome to be dead by 45. I am 50 and have a 10 year old - no age for him to be losing a parent. People with conditions like Type 1 diabetes and asthma can expect to live a normal life. Pretending a death under 45 with an underlying health condition is OK is, at best, dismissive of the facts of life expectancy with these conditions. At worst, you are basically saying it’s OK for less than perfectly healthy people die in their 40s and 50s.

I think we need to be clear about what is counting as an "underlying health condition" for these purposes. It's not the same as the list that requires shielding/defines the vulnerable.

From the ONS, "a pre-existing condition can be defined as any mention on the certificate that was either in the causal chain leading to the COVID-19 infection, or not in the causal chain but contributed to the death." So it has to be mentioned on the death certificate, and thought to be a contributing factor in the death.

Ischaemic heart diseases, Chronic lower respiratory diseases, Influenza and pneumonia, dementia and diabetes are the most common, with ischaemic heart disease being the most common.

And your point is?!

Exactly, I am pretty sure psoriasis and arthritis are not being classed as underlying conditions on death certificates

@Howaboutanewname

but the number of deaths in under 45s is still very low (under 500 in total) even if you include all those with underlying health conditions

It is a pretty shit life outcome to be dead by 45. I am 50 and have a 10 year old - no age for him to be losing a parent. People with conditions like Type 1 diabetes and asthma can expect to live a normal life. Pretending a death under 45 with an underlying health condition is OK is, at best, dismissive of the facts of life expectancy with these conditions. At worst, you are basically saying it’s OK for less than perfectly healthy people die in their 40s and 50s.

Totally agree with this. Are you saying these lives don’t matter?

What are you saying?

Most people DO have underlying health conditions such as asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure, overweight, etc. There are few middle aged people who are healthy weight, don't smoke, with no medical issues.

As PP have said. What of the people who survive? Covid19 isnt flu. People who get ill are still unwell weeks later.

Think of it as a pyramid. Death is at the top of the pyramid but under that are many more people. At the bottom of the pyramid are people who are asymptomatic. In-between are the people who get ill, some more so than others.

It is a pretty shit life outcome to be dead by 45

Well, yes, of course. But sadly nearly 15,000 adults aged 15-44 die every year. No one is saying it's fine, people is this group or that group don't matter.

However, we all need to be clear what the risks for each group actually are, something that wasn't clear some 3 months ago. We have young people who genuinely seem to have developed something akin to agoraphobia, because they believe that if they step outside they , or their children, are at significant risk of dying. They aren't.

Equally, we need to be very clear what we need to do to protect those who are at the highest risk, which can only be done if we understand who they really are.

@Aragog but most over 45s are unlikely to die also, Just because you become 46 it doesn’t suddenly mean your risk is massively more than the previous day. People need to use common sense.

At the beginning of lockdown there was a case of a youngster (early 20's) dying of coronavirus. It was all over the newspapers that she was young, fit and healthy. Whether or not she died of it or with it, she most certainly was not fit and healthy. She was an illegal drug user and had a bowel disease. I know the of the family in this case. I truly believe the government are picking and choosing what they want people to know and are purposefully misleading in order to control and manipulate.

What PatriciaHolm said.

I don't at all understand this as being about these lives/deaths 'not mattering'. It's about a realistic awareness of the actual risks.

@Tfoot75

All that you need to know is that Covid19 does not increase the risk of dying in the next 12 months for most age groups. The actual number who have died is an irrelevance. Most of us have no more risk of dying from this than we do of dying from anything else.

On a population wide basis, this effectively means that people in those age groups would have died anyway within the next 12 months.

And it also effectively means that all of the 'excess deaths' are in the elderly population. We will only know if these are really 'excess' at the end of the 12 months, or over a longer period, when we can see if the deaths that have occurred have significantly reduced deaths later on (which is what we expect to happen).

But it does mean if 450 under 44s have died from covid, 450 fewer under 44s have died from other conditions in the same period.

You said it yourself we don’t actually know that the speculation surrounding whether or not the majority of people who have died would’ve died this year and won’t for many more months.

It’s a very high stake bet to make a national policy on wouldn’t you agree?

I was simply responding to the statement that schools don't have many over 45s. Which simply isn't true for many school staff.

@Jrobhatch29 you can keep your

Psoriasis was exactly the underlying health condition cited for my 62 year old neighbour. Otherwise fit and healthy. You clearly don't realise it's an auto immune condition? Kinda relevant when it comes to fighting off deadly viruses

@PatriciaHolm exactly, I don’t know why others keep shouting over 60’s matter too. Nobody have said they don’t. Parents not letting their children out because they think they are saving their lives needs addressing.

As an 84 year old woman you have an average life expectancy of 91. Losing 7 years of your life is a pretty bad outcome.

@Jrobhatch29

Exactly, I am pretty sure psoriasis and arthritis are not being classed as underlying conditions on death certificates

They’re autoimmune diseases and especially if they’re being treated with biologics or steroids (both immunosuppressants) then they will absolutely count as underlying diseases.

@MonkeyToesOfDoom

I love these threads...

"Kids and people under 45 don't die so open everything up and get kids back to school"
Meanwhile people in old folks home were dropping dead at increased rates.
But hey, screw them, they're old and dont matter. Yes they might be someone's mum, grandma, sister, aunt, dad etc... But they've had their lives, let em die.

Because that's exactly what people are saying. There little risk to kids and healthy people, so let it spread... Even though those kids and healthy people will pass it to elderly and unhealthy people..

It's like cleansing the population, people are eager to do it too. Shocking really.

I’m not entirely sure how your logic works here. Care homes aren’t allowing visitors so the effect on their residents of “opening everything up” would be minimal to non existent.

It’s high time schools, shops, pubs and restaurants reopened. Those of us who are at greater risk or who are scared can continue to stay at home and everyone’s happy.

I do wonder, if there was a virus that only killed children, and adults rarely caught it or passed it on, how different things would be. Schools and nurseries would close, but I suspect pubs, clubs and shops would stay open.
I think children have been very readily sacrificed in all this.
Physically they’re mostly fine, but mentally a lot of them will be damaged.

Oh and to add both come with greater risks for cardiac issues which may be triggered by covid

@bubbleup i do actually considering my dad has it! You need to look at the link @patriciaholm has attached on what is being classed as an underlying condition. I would suggest the case of your neighbour is extremely rare!