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How the hell are parents meant to work?

856 replies

worzelsnurzel123 · 09/06/2020 11:05

With this latest blow from schools and yet further delays, I predict employers will cease to be “ fair” and they will run out of the patience BJ vaguely muttered about hoping they’d have. So what are the options?

  1. Resign from jobs? This could have massive impact on income, likely to affect women and the future of women’s’ rights and progress in the workplace, creation of mental health issues and socio economic problems
  2. Will some parents be pushed in to feeling the have no choice but to leave kids home alone? Esp those who are borderline age group eg 8-12. Not ideal at all. Clearly this will impact on MH, safety, parental work performance.
  3. Leave kids with grandparents who are likely to be over 70 in many cases, shielding or vulnerable. Risks of passing the virus on would lead to guilt , worry on both sides.
  4. Wait for everything to fuck up work wise, scrabble for child care here there and everywhere, lose employers good will due to time off needed and eventually get dismissed for poor attendance, breach of conduct and or poor performance

This is a disgrace. An absolute disgrace

OP posts:
Ilovecoffeebreaks · 09/06/2020 15:36

My DD who is 8 suffers badly from anxiety and the new school system will crush her confidence even more. I as well don't know how long my employer will pay me as my main childcare was my parents who are over 70.

LittleFoxKit · 09/06/2020 15:38

@LoveIslandVirgin

It is unacceptable. It's putting parents in such a bad position, not to mention confusing for children.

Schools have had months to work this out. Why are they acting like this is a big shock to them? Why are we only seeing school principals on the news, moving tables, working it out, etc? Where are the staff? I know Im going to be buried alive by teachers reading this but why are you not in there working this out? My children haven't been taught one lesson since schools closed. We get a vague weekly email and no offer to return work for assessment.

I'm sure you have your own ideas, don't rely on the dozy lot at management level. A lot of schools have assembly halls, gyms, large and small offices, canteens, reception areas, chapels, etc - lots of space to turn into temporary classrooms. The education authorities/councils must have been sitting on their hands enjoying time off work rather than working out a solution to returning kids to school. Can you not look beyond the school building to the wider community and borrow community halls, church halls, portakabins, etc? There are loads of teaching trainees out there who can't return to university full time and could support classes spread out. Retired teachers could come back to help out too and those supply teachers who were dealt a raw deal throughout the lockdown will only be too happy to work! I'll happy get myself a tabard and give a hand with the cleaning.

I'll sit down now, I'm getting vertigo from this tall soapbox.

Off you go teachers, get stuck in ...

Schools have been working it out, then every time new guidence is released they have to start all over again.

Regarding hiring additional space to use as classrooms and additional teachers, were do you propose schools find the additional money in their budgets? It's a grand idea if they could get additional funding to do so, but that's not been the case and theyve been expected to find solutions within the current budgets (which are already spread to thin).

Do people not realise how ridiculous it is to suggest bringing retired teachers back in.. you know.. the people who are categorically most at risk??

Trainee teachers, it depends how many would be willing to teach independently without support from the get go, and if any actually felt comfortable or prepared as they will have missed almost 6 months of there PCGE which is a full time very intensive course. I imagine very few would be willing to put themselves in that position, as they are then vulnerable to parental displeasure, have no one to guide or advise if they are doing something wrong. A bad teacher can be incredibly damaging (I remember a particular bad teacher myself which actually caused me to become so confused - on a subject I had previously learnt at the end of year 11 to fill time after exams) that I actually left my A levels. It can completely destroy a love of learning. Also most university courses are still running distance learning so many pcge students will potentially still be having their own lessons in the day. The largest difficulty they will have with completing is their placements. But it's unlikely teacher trainees would be able to commit to mon-fri 9-3 for that reason.

Orangeblossom78 · 09/06/2020 15:41

I have just seen that a school has closed as one pupil tested positive not just the bubble sent home - therefore if this happens then school could be stop / start perhaps as well so not reliable even if it was reopened in full

I thought it would just be the bubble but no it was the whole school. Nothing on when it would reopen.

DomDoesWotHeWants · 09/06/2020 15:46

At one local school the bubble burst on the Tuesday after they started back because a child tested positive but the parents hadn't told the school he had symptoms or had been tested.

Their second bubble just burst.

wizzbangfizz · 09/06/2020 15:46

Ffs I am so sick of the "it can't be done" attitude from some people on here. If they could mobilise and staff 3 giant hospitals why can't they apply the same level of innovative thinking and funding to getting additional school space on fields and extra staff drafted in.

snowballer · 09/06/2020 15:49

@wizzbangfizz

Ffs I am so sick of the "it can't be done" attitude from some people on here. If they could mobilise and staff 3 giant hospitals why can't they apply the same level of innovative thinking and funding to getting additional school space on fields and extra staff drafted in.
Absolutely. The government attitude has been pathetic. Prioritising pubs, golf and bloody Ikea over children's education. The insane amounts of money invested all over the place show it can be done, and yet nothing for schools. Innovative thinking is non-existent. I'm in a permanent state of fury.
SimonJT · 09/06/2020 15:53

@Sandybval

my employer is doing very very well and they have decided to cut costs by hugely reducing office space

Let's hope they don't decide to cut costs further by realising they could outsource at least a percentage and pay less. If no one is in the office physically at any point, geography and pesky things like the minimum wage here aren't an issue.

Its a highly skilled job with a shortage of workers, its also paid very well world wide. UK staff aren’t paid as much as those carrying out the role in the US, AUS, NZ, Singapore, Malaysia etc.
AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 09/06/2020 15:53

@FraterculaArctica I could have written your post my 6 year old son is the same, rude to people at the hub etc. I punish him but feel bad as well as it is such a funny situation for him, not his school/teachers or friends. He isn’t like this when normally at school although does sometimes struggle with his emotions which he was being referred for before lockdown, now forgotten about

Sarah75Lou · 09/06/2020 15:54

Totally agree op

LittleFoxKit · 09/06/2020 15:54

@TokyoSushi

It seems at the moment that if it's not 9-3pm in the school building then it can't be done. There are loads of other options, I know they come with challenges, and cost but they at least should be thought about, my suggestions as follows:
  • Use other buildings in the local area: libraries/leisure centres/community centres/churches
  • Fast track student teachers nearing the end of their degree to help out like they did in the NHS
  • Repurpose the disused Nightingale hospitals
  • Change the length of the school day with teachers on early and late shifts so KS1 could begin at 8 am and KS2 could finish at 5/6pm, for example, their teachers come in earlier or later to accommodate this
  • Deep clean the schools overnight (contract cleaning company?) to allow for greater use during the day
  • Open schools at the weekend, (it's not like we're doing anything else) and some year groups/bubbles go in on a weekend day

I completely understand that this would be a massive change and would have all sorts of issues to be overcome, but other sectors have had to adapt, and loads of money has been found from somewhere for things like the furlough scheme, where is the money for education?

Who's paying for the additional spaces? Schools cant afford to and the government wont provide additional money. Honestly you cannot fast track PCGE students, it's only 12 months of high intensity training as it is, although any who started last September will be at NQT status by this coming september. But schools also need funding to hire additional staff Nightingale centres is a relatively reasonable idea, but only works in areas where they built one. There isnt one within 100 miles of were I live i dont think. Changing the school day.. only works if the teachers own children are also in the same time as them. Likewise how do you deep clean the classrooms and school between the morning group and the afternoon group? This is why a morning/afternoon split has been so strongly advised against. Deep cleaning the school over night, firstly money is needed to pay for the company and it will cost more due to unsociable hours. Likewise dont underestimate how long it would take to deep clean a entire school (thus increasing the unsocialable hours). Honestly weekend school is such a bad idea. Firstly when do teachers get a day off? Secondly do you really think parents and children will be happy attending weekend school? If parents work mon-fri it absolutely does not help them return to work, it also cuts down on the quality time parents will get with their children. As things relax i really dont see children being happy at missing out on fun weekend activities as they know there friends are enjoying. Secondly teachers also need time off, theres no money for additional teachers so the teachers working weekends will also be working mon-fri, which will lead to burn out and a even larger exodus from the profession leaving very few teachers to actually teach children post Covid. Also it ignores the fact teachers will then need weekend childcare and key worker hubs do not open on weekends (to my knowledge). Before anyone says private schools sometimes have sat lessons.. this is more common in boarding schools, is part of the original structure and ethos of the school and is a completely different kettle of fish then expecting the average child to suddenly attend weekend schooling. For everyone's sanity children really need some form of mon-fri is education/work time and sat-sun is relax or family time. Otherwise that would really play havoc with mental health!
StaffAssociationRepresentative · 09/06/2020 15:57

Have all industries made huge changes? Don't think so. Okay, some allow home working but really that is about it.

cyclingmad · 09/06/2020 16:02

Lots of people have had to narrow sacrifices whether its single people, people living alone, vulnerable people and so on.

I agree with @lljkk a grown up discussion should always have taken place about what risks are acceptable and not driven by hysteria.

okiedokieme · 09/06/2020 16:05

How about hiring one of the many 6th formers, university students or furloughed workers - what do parents normally do in summer the holidays start in a month here anyway.

Italiandreams · 09/06/2020 16:06

The problem is, some of these ideas have potential but they require money. So it’s in the hands of the government as schools have none! So stop moaning about schools and teachers and direct your anger in the correct place! People have talked about teacher messaging at 1am and still people shout lazy teachers! I’m not saying they don’t exist but please stop generalising.

alwaysraining123 · 09/06/2020 16:06

I agree with the comment that kids lives feel on hold. I'm not sure what it's like for most people's children but mine hadn't (before this week) spoken to anyone in-person other that myself and partner for over 11 weeks. We don't have family close by so can't arrange outdoor meetings and until recently the guidance didn't extend to meeting outside in groups of more than 2 anyway. In this time I've been WFH and at least have had some human interaction/contact.

BlingLoving · 09/06/2020 16:09

Completely agree re lack of innovative thinking. However, I think a lot of it is that this kind of thinking has costs associated which the government isn't willing to meet. So pubs, ikea etc are all implementing solutions but they're meeting the costs themselves (there may well be some incentives etc, but overall, they see it as an investment otherwise they'll go bust).

But things that require government funding and intervention from transport to schooling, has not received it. I'm still struggling to understand how when they told people to go back to work they weren't willing to fund increased public transport so everyone had to go back while public transport was still operating at, at best, 75% (London).

It's the same with schools. Portacabins, alternative venues, increased staff are all valid ideas and which could be adapted according to individual school/local authority as is practical.

Also, government didn't THINK about the simplest things. So eg the 15 child bubble. But because they're all from private schools, it probably didn't occur to them that a lot of schools can't do 15 child bubbles because classrooms simply aren't big enough. So, in our school for example, we would have to have 3 bubbles per class (so that's three classrooms, three teachers etc) because the maximum number of children we can fit into our classrooms, with social distancing etc, is 12. For some classrooms it's more like 9 or 10. The sheer logistics of increasing the number of classrooms by 3x is insane! And needed more creative thinking. AND FUNDING

DoingMyOwnThing · 09/06/2020 16:09

OP you are correct in all your points.

It is a disgrace for working parents. No childcare, no school, grandparents are vulnerable but no alternative for many since children can not go back to school, wrap around childcare is not running unless key worker and they cannot be left alone.

This whole handling of covid crisis by the government has been a shambles and continues to be a complete mess with nothing really thought out at all.

Crazycrazylady · 09/06/2020 16:10

I don't think employers are the baddies in all this. I think that its unfeasible that people who don't have childcare and can't work are paid indefinitely by their company. If that was the case, every second employer would simply go to the wall.
I don't know what the best solution is..

LoosingBattle · 09/06/2020 16:10

It is hard.

I work in an office that has never closed at all. My team can work from home but as our colleagues cannot it was felt unfair to allow us. Hmm

I now work 4am - 12pm and I am home for 1pm for DD10 to homeschool and wfh in the afternoon. DH now starts at 10am so leaves about 9am. DD is left by herself inbetween.

I am knackered. I am a shit colleague and I am a neglectful mother but have no idea what else to do.

Thanks Sympathy for everyone.

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 09/06/2020 16:10

@okiedokieme I personally have a childminder For holiday care, she has 2DC of her own With SN who she will also need to home school and has already said that If this is the Case she won’t be able to have mine at the same time. Childminders/nursery are thin on the ground in my area especially ones with space for 2 kids, this is only going to get worse if a whole load of parents are suddenly requiring care on the same days etc not to mention the costs will be crippling!

SueEllenMishke · 09/06/2020 16:12

what do parents normally do in summer the holidays start in a month here anyway

Use annual leave ( which may be cancelled) , holiday clubs and grandparents.
No holiday clubs are running in my area and we aren't allowed to use grandparents.

TakemetoGreeceplease · 09/06/2020 16:12

what do parents normally do in summer the holidays start in a month here anyway.

Mine, like many usually go to grandparents and I use annual leave for the rest. Grandparents are shielding and as I was made to take annual leave whilst furloughed I won't have enough left to take a decent holiday during the school holidays. As a lone parent I can't afford to pay for childcare.

Currently 1 in 4 households with children are single parent households. 90% of those are headed by women. Around 68% of those currently work, that won't be the case for much longer and once again children of lone parents will be living in poverty and along with lack of education will have much poorer outcomes.

nowaitaminute · 09/06/2020 16:14

In countries like Luxembourg where they have reopened schools, they have hired hundreds of extra staff, built disinfection stations, issued masks to staff and students AND importantly on weeks children not in school are providing alternative childcare centres.

But the U.K. can barely pay their teachers properly or provide books etc with their budget...so they won't be able to afford all of that imo.

HipTightOnions · 09/06/2020 16:15

Ffs I am so sick of the "it can't be done" attitude from some people on here. If they could mobilise and staff 3 giant hospitals why can't they apply the same level of innovative thinking and funding to getting additional school space on fields and extra staff drafted in.

It’s a question of scale. There are 32770 schools in the UK, all of which would need “additional space” and “extra staff”.

DoingMyOwnThing · 09/06/2020 16:16

What's with the hysterical over the top comments eg

'teachers are collateral damage'

Total rubbish. Stop with the hysteria now, it really doesn't help at all.

Solutions are required not ridiculous shrieking whenever anyone makes any suggestions

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