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How the hell are parents meant to work?

856 replies

worzelsnurzel123 · 09/06/2020 11:05

With this latest blow from schools and yet further delays, I predict employers will cease to be “ fair” and they will run out of the patience BJ vaguely muttered about hoping they’d have. So what are the options?

  1. Resign from jobs? This could have massive impact on income, likely to affect women and the future of women’s’ rights and progress in the workplace, creation of mental health issues and socio economic problems
  2. Will some parents be pushed in to feeling the have no choice but to leave kids home alone? Esp those who are borderline age group eg 8-12. Not ideal at all. Clearly this will impact on MH, safety, parental work performance.
  3. Leave kids with grandparents who are likely to be over 70 in many cases, shielding or vulnerable. Risks of passing the virus on would lead to guilt , worry on both sides.
  4. Wait for everything to fuck up work wise, scrabble for child care here there and everywhere, lose employers good will due to time off needed and eventually get dismissed for poor attendance, breach of conduct and or poor performance

This is a disgrace. An absolute disgrace

OP posts:
Wondergirl100 · 09/06/2020 14:58

Completely agree with someone who said we need to learn to understand levels of risk.

The level of risk of a healthy child passing on Covid to an adult is LOW The risk to the child of them becoming sick is almost non existent.

Children are not a key transmitter of Covid and have rarely been found to have played a part in passing it on when viral clusters are looked at.

As a risk to children it's a non entity - they are more at risk from getting hit by a car or being abused in their own home while off school.

We need to get kids back in school - currently we are treating children as the MOST dangerous group and school as the MOST risky plce to work - this is utter nonsense.

Get adventure playgrounds open, get youth clubs open, get chidlren in groups learning outdoors - at the moment the adult world is returning to normal while children's lives are on hold.

LoveIslandVirgin · 09/06/2020 14:59

@Lostmyshityear9 actually, there have been months to work this out. Have you been living in a time warp?

Why would you rely on any government to work out how to reopen your own school? Perhaps the goverment is, in turn, relying on the experts (ie the staff at the school) to advise them? It wouldn't hurt for staff to ask if they can help. Some people do speak up and take the lead and other are sheep that follow the herd. The government guidance tells us when the time is right to reopen schools, shops, etc and insist there should be social distancing, etc but they don't have a solution for every single building. That's where local knowledge is valuable.

I have had a think, thanks. I've been thinking about it for MONTHS. I'm not spouting shit, I have some valuable things to say. I'm the kind of person who prefers not to sit back and wait for others to sort things out for me, to enjoy watching them cock it up and criticise. We are supposed to be "in this together", not going round the field baa-ing!

I don't consider teachers' lives to be collateral damage, we are all prepared for our little darlings to bring their usual germs, bacteria and viruses home with them, therefore affecting us all! As pp have said, we need to apply some common sense to this and accept that there are risks and there will be for some time to come. Teaching will be become the new front-line but spare a thought for shop workers who will reopen their stores this week and for other businesses who have frightened staff who feel they aren't ready to return to work. They don't have all the answers either but they'll get damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Stop being so bloody naive and start thinking for yourself!

TokyoSushi · 09/06/2020 15:03

Genuine question as I have no knowledge of the situation, is that really how a school works? You can't take any decision and have to wait to be told what to do by the LA/Dept of Education?

That would drive me nuts!

DisobedientHamster · 09/06/2020 15:06

No one knows. It's all being made up as it goes along.

FraterculaArctica · 09/06/2020 15:07

My 6yo DS is rude, aggressive, spends most of the day ignoring requests and instructions and hitting me and his little sister. Responds to punishment by destroying the house. He's absolutely fine in school. I can't take much more of it but I certainly couldn't leave him with a grandparent or untrained teenager. It's practically driving me and DH to breakdown. And I don't think he's that extreme. What world do some of you live in where you could leave your kids with a random teenage babysitter?

Devlesko · 09/06/2020 15:07

As long as you all work and live within your means without putting grandparents at risk, where's the problem.
It's a shame that women still think they are the ones that will have to give up work. It means that everything we fought for has gone out of the window.
Any man who isn't prepared to count his wifes work/career as equal to his is the problem, not the lack of schools.

Lostmyshityear9 · 09/06/2020 15:09

Why would you rely on any government to work out how to reopen your own school?

Erm....guidelines. Changed 41 times in a week recently.

Guidelines we're expected to abide by. Because, you know, if we don't and people start getting sick and dying and it can be traced back to schools?

I don't consider teachers' lives to be collateral damage
Never thought I would ever write this about Boris et al but here goes....let the Government do their job. If they don't consider it safe, it's not safe. If we open too soon, teachers will die...which makes us collateral damage. But it's not just us, is it? Because we don't live in a vacuum and this seems to be something that those hard of understanding simply don't understand.

SueEllenMishke · 09/06/2020 15:10

at the moment the adult world is returning to normal while children's lives are on hold

For many the adult world can't return to normal until schools and wrap around care is available again.
I, like many other working parents, am living in a permanent state of stress. I'm trying to work full time in a job that has become much busier in the last few weeks and will continue to do so, while homeschooling a 5 year old. This isn't any kind of normal - it's bloody awful.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 09/06/2020 15:10

@Devlesko doesn't help single parents though, we don't all have a husband.

Babyroobs · 09/06/2020 15:10

Just had a text to say dd ( year 10) back for one morning next week between 8.30-12.40 !

HistoryKitty · 09/06/2020 15:16

Crikey is it really only 8% of the working population this affects? I thought it would be higher than that. ONS revealed in October that 75% of UK mothers with dependent children are in work now and 92% of fathers. Not saying that's wrong it just sounds really low. Google doesn't seem to want to give me a straight answer.

Goosefoot · 09/06/2020 15:18

It's not a sustainable situation.

As a question at a large society level, I think there is some thinking to do about the idea that it's a good idea to have two full time working parents as the norm. Which I realise might impact women more, but at the same time, this is only one example of how that may be something that isn't sustainable. It's also a problem in a lot of other cases, there is little room for families to find solutions when something happens like a child that is ill, problems in school, elderly parents, some other crises. Even if it was just a lot more common to have a parent at home that could go a long way to providing places that kids without a parent at home might go.

However - this business of keeping schools closed won't work, IMO, in the immediate situation, and I'm not convinced that it will even help much. In some countries where there have been schools reopened, the things they have put in place to keep kids apart are pretty awful, too. And the idea of kids doing distance learning long term is bad, even many university students struggle with that model.

I actually feel a little badly for the political class though, they know they will be pillories if there is spread or deaths associated with school attendance. Part of the problem may be the public expectation that government can keep everyone safe in a pandemic if only they try hard enough and do the right things.

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 09/06/2020 15:19

If this part time, half weeks in and half at home or different weeks etc goes ahead I will need to give up my job as a community nurse. And before anyone says make your DH work less that will not work for us. He works away in a specialised job only he does for that company, it can’t be done from home and it is Monday-Friday with odd weekends, if he starts saying he can only work odd days they will just replace him and we are lucky he has managed to keep his job at all. I am already on flexible part time working so can’t be any more flexible, my off duties are done months in advance due to the pandemic and how things have changed in my health board. I have 3DC across different year groups and schools as well

They attend the hub currently but there is no teaching just childcare, they aren’t keen on doing school work when they get home now, it is just a worksheet emailed every few days and some work on sumdog and my eldest gets next to nothing (p7). Transition for secondary is now happening in August so may be the same for p1 as my youngest is starting then.

thelittlestrhino · 09/06/2020 15:20

@TokyoSushi

Genuine question as I have no knowledge of the situation, is that really how a school works? You can't take any decision and have to wait to be told what to do by the LA/Dept of Education?

That would drive me nuts!

Yes, and yes it absolutely does!

Both teachers at my little school have been in and sorted out things as best we can, we know the school and the children and what will work.

No, we had the risk assessor from the region in this week with his magic plan. Which included desks helpfully to be placed on top of built in furniture and one entirely blocking the only door to the classroom... Actually by ‘moving’ into the gym hall I could teach my whole class, with social distancing. Not allowed. I’m only allowed half in at a time, because that’s ‘fair’.

I want to be in school. I want to be teaching. I desperately want to have my class back together. Every teacher I know does.

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 09/06/2020 15:21

@covetingthepreciousthings it’s not that simple either! Both sets of grandparents actually work full time themselves! Honestly they are just spouting utter tosh now

wizzbangfizz · 09/06/2020 15:23

Completely agree it's an absolute disgrace and I'm royally fed up by both the government response and my own schools woeful lack of interaction, provision and willing to consider doing things a different way.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 09/06/2020 15:23

I’m furious by the whole thing. It’s not being discussed!!! Certainly not in my company.

I’m only part time and am BROKEN. I’m at the point of resigning.

No one has died of corona in scotland for two days and our schools are still shut. What the actual fuck?!

AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii · 09/06/2020 15:24

@GoldenOmber hahahahahah that has made me laugh in exasperation! Not all employers can be flexible!! I’m nhs my job is done mainly Monday to Friday! Between the hours of 9 and 3 to make it flexible for me! As I said my DH work is Monday to Friday as well and if he isn’t there the work doesn’t get done! What will happen is they will just start replacing people as they have been flexible enough so far!

pipnchops · 09/06/2020 15:25

Why didn't the government just keep the current system for keeping schools and nurseries open for key worker's and vulnerable children but open it up to other children, regardless of school year, whose parents are unable to look after them at home due to going back to work. I've always thought this would have been a more sensible step forward. My DD is in reception and most of her class have gone back even though a lot have parents at home who could look after them, which is completely fine, their choice, but seems unfair to those with older children who are struggling.

LondonJax · 09/06/2020 15:27

I suggested portacabins a while ago @LoveIslandVirgin. As someone, rightly, pointed out that won't work for some schools because of lack of playground space. But it would work for huge comprehensives like the one I work in, so a mixture of things could be used. Town halls, church halls etc could also be used as you say, IF the same class used it every week so they and their parents knew where they were getting taught. The issue, for secondary school children, is the travel as school buses only go to and from the school building, not dropping kids at church halls, leisure centres or town halls etc. Potentially that could be sorted out though depending on the sites being used.

However, I would think it would mean that every other club who had those spaces booked could not be able to use them. Because, like many schools, our school is 'demisting' spaces every evening so the classrooms are sanitised. School cleaners have specific products to use overnight. Little point in doing that if the WI is going in on Saturday or a Sunday School is using the hall or a pilates class is going on until 9.30pm on Wednesday evenings. Who has the responsibility to clean it to the right standard? Someone would have to go into all these remote places to ensure they were deep cleaned before and after each class or other organisation goes in. And, yes, an army of parents could help. But for how long? If a vaccine doesn't arrive, would all those parents still be happy to come in every night to clean up after pilates, WI, parish council meetings etc., to ensure the class using the facilities was safe? In how many venues? For what? Six months? A year?

Because, again, bodge it and paper over the cracks only works for so long. Parents will, quite rightly, begin to fall off cleaning rotas (they're working or have families to look after). Clubs will start demanding their hall back and that'll create ill feeling. If this is a long haul, if vaccines don't appear, money needs to be found to put an extra floor (or two) on each school, train and recruit more teachers, reduce class sizes, reopen gyms and libraries in school and get back to normality but with smaller classrooms.

So, yes, get temporary things in place but it has to be in parallel with more funding from the Chancellor for schools to fund permanent classrooms/teachers/smaller classes etc., As well as finding cash for the NHS and transport - those institutions that don't always make money but are vital if this country prospers. Our children deserve proper, permanent solutions to this, not sticking plasters and fingers crossed.

And it's the same issue with supply teachers - the money isn't there. Getting a supply teacher for one or two classes because a teacher has left (money is back in the pot from that teacher's salary) or because a teacher is ill (temporary with, potentially, a return date so a budget can be worked out) is very different to getting a teacher for almost every class. For what? Six months? A year? Two years? We have no idea. My son's year at his school has 11 classes. That's one year. Split that in two - 22 classes per year. Multiply that by 5 years and that's a hell of a lot of supply teachers, all needing to be paid. Where's the money?

There was a head teacher on the radio today speaking with a parent who asked about portacabins etc., She said they'd happily order them if the government would give them money to pay for them. At the moment, in her school, it's books/supplies or teachers or (potentially) portacabins. It can't even be two of the three.

And it's not necessarily even the need for temporary classrooms. I was having an on line meeting with my boss today. If our school goes back with 2 metre distancing we can bring back 1/3 of the students. That's it. That is using all classrooms, the sports hall, the gym, the canteen, the library, there's even a corridor that leads to a boiler room that is wide enough so that will be used! We have used everything except for the roof! And still we can only get 1/3 of all students back. Decrease the social distancing to 1 metre and get the kids (secondary level) to wear masks and you get 2/3 back as you can increase to 20 children per class. Considering that many of the remainder are sixth form with a more fluid time table and, with a bit of jiggling of their time table, we may get a vast majority back. But not with 15 to a class and no surplus cash. Unless the community comes to the rescue and gives us spaces like church halls, there's nothing in the pot to pay rent.

Some parents on the radio today were saying how it's madness that the government is 'yippy yi yaying' about sports people going back to work, restaurants opening and shops getting back but there's no cash available to help schools get the space needed.

You give my school the money and watch how fast those portacabins go up and the kids get back. Without them it simply can't be done within the current guidelines. One third will return and that's it.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 09/06/2020 15:31

To be honest, wfh or going into work makes really no difference. If you're caring for young children, it's not possible to wfh while doing so, really. I have no idea what the solution is. Follow social distancing & hygiene as much as possible and hopefully we'll get the numbers low enough we can start to get back to work? Or - spread the virus gradually and aim for herd immunity? Who knows?!

SimonJT · 09/06/2020 15:32

Its crazy, I’m very lucky as I can work from home, my employer is doing very very well and they have decided to cut costs by hugely reducing office space (this however will lead to cleaners losing hours/their job).

If you cannot work from home you’re basically screwed.

My son is in reception, he hasn’t gone back yet as I want a good three weeks of school open before I decide if he can go back. I’m lucky, I can essentially work when I want, but it means I’m Dad 8-7 and 7-10 everyday I’m at work (including weekends). But lots of people who can work from home have to work 9-5, that doesn’t work with very young children.

TokyoSushi · 09/06/2020 15:34

@thelittlestrhino Wow, that's just bonkers!

Sandybval · 09/06/2020 15:34

my employer is doing very very well and they have decided to cut costs by hugely reducing office space

Let's hope they don't decide to cut costs further by realising they could outsource at least a percentage and pay less. If no one is in the office physically at any point, geography and pesky things like the minimum wage here aren't an issue.

RunRunRunAway · 09/06/2020 15:35

I want to cry. I have no other option. I have the perfect job; school hours, good pay and looks like I am going to have to give it up SadSadI feel so sad for dc too