Honestly who’s responsible for stopping the plan for dc back to school

[sunshineanddaffodils]

Is it government, head teachers or unions?
I know its’s been blamed at lot on government guidelines but it seems different head teachers are able to interpret them completely differently - some allowing bubbles of 15 but some only focusing on social distancing even though this isn’t a requirement.
So are government being held to ransom by unions or not?

Schools are still required to do social distancing as much as possible.

Are you insane? In a national and international crisis the unions have no say.

Logistics, local councils, looking at data, local cohorts of pupils (eg more KW due to an affluent area or more vulnerable pupils due to an area of less affluence) governs this.

There are political decisions and decisions based on science.

Some areas are still in the red area.

SD and test, track, trace and quarantine creates massive logistical issues.

Schools are already closing due to TTT.

It's painful but it's how we get out of it.

@EducatingArti
They’re allowed groups of 15 knowing dc are unlikely to socially distance effectively.
I feel like schools have deliberately misinterpreted the guidelines so they cannot open to more years

I don't think anyone is to blame as such. I think the unions are trashing out details because the government will happily blame schools if anything goes wrong, as will parents. Whilst children are low risk for complications they might be spreaders, they go home and 80% of transmission happens within households. Plus if one child in a class tests positive does that mean the whole class and families self isolate until tested and results back? How can parents plan to return to work smoothly? This all needs careful consideration, it's not just children back to school or not as frustrating as it is.

The blame game isn't going to help right now I am sure it is coming and I'm sure headteachers will be thrown under a bus if they can.

Perhaps the unions have access to the same data as the government, the government say "back to school" unions say "hang on are we following the science" government say "the economy" unions say "thought this was about health and safety" ........and on and on it goes.

I trust the teachers and unions have more experience and desire to educate and keep our children, teaching staff and all their families safe and want them to be educated over the government. But that's just my preference perhaps we are luckily and have great teachers. Ours want the children back but would prefer to wait a bit longer than have to keep isolating on and off.

Why would schools deliberately not want to teach OP? Seriously what planet are you on?

I feel like schools have deliberately misinterpreted the guidelines so they cannot open to more years

Have you read the guidelines?

@Frippenos. Can you link me to where it states dc have to be kept 2 metres apart?

Deliberately misinterpreted the guidelines? Do you think teachers do their job because of the perks? The salary? The holidays? We do it because we love teaching and we love our students. I know some schools have not risen to the challenge well and are not supporting their students, but we are busting our guts.

Nearly every member of staff is on rota, including every holiday. We are teaching online, we are doing online social activities, we have staff in volunteering to clear rooms and tape floors etc to meet government guidelines. We don't decide when we open, just like we didn't decide to 'close' (because we only close at the weekend now, not even holidays).

@MaryBerrysBomberJacket. It’s good to hear from teachers who love their job. I’ve found the past few months utterly depressing with the vibe on MN from teachers on MN that they hate their jobs and are desperate to leave the profession. This may have clouded my opinion about the reluctance to open schools.

Since when has a Tory government EVER paid the slightest bit of attention to the Unions?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings#class-or-group-sizes

The government is responsible. They introduced the guidelines required for schools to open up safety. It is impossible for the guidelines to be followed and open up schools to all pupils. If schools were to open fully, guidelines would have to be changed and it doesn't look as though anyone has done that. So yes, this is on the government.

Ive found all the teacher bashing thoroughly depreasing.

I know when people are upset or hurtig they often lash out at something nearby and teachers seem to have born the brunt of this :(

Unions have no say.

Schools have no say.

Ignore social distancing. The govt guidelines are bubbles of no more than 15. That means double the classrooms and double the teachers to be magicked out of thin air to accommodate all pupils.

It was never going to be possible.

From the guidance: www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-protective-measures-in-education-and-childcare-settings

"Where settings can keep children and young people in those small groups 2 metres away from each other, they should do so."

"Desks should be spaced as far apart as possible."

"For secondary schools and colleges, the same principle of halving classes will normally apply. We recognise that the range of subjects and courses taught in secondary schools and colleges means that some mixing may be unavoidable to provide pupils with face-to-face support from subject/specialist teachers. We would expect that these groups are still smaller than normal. It is also sensible to rearrange classrooms and workshops with sitting positions 2 metres apart"

From the Early years guidance:
"Depending on the size and the layout of individual settings, consider how floor space, rooms and outdoor space can be organised to ensure physical distancing between staff and between groups of children, considering the early years foundation stage (EYFS) age-based space requirements. Providers must meet the following indoor space requirements:

children under 2 years need 3.5 m² per child
2 year olds need 2.5 m² per child
children aged 3 to 5 years need 2.3 m² per child"

Schools and nurseries have to follow this guidance, if they don't and something goes wrong it will come back to them as being irresponsible and ignoring the guidance they were issued.

@sunshineanddaffodils
I don't think you have read the guidelines properly
You are coming across as a doom ridden dementor!

@Sunshineanddaffodils we have 30 chn per class, with one classroom each. Even with 15 per class, we would need double the amount of classrooms than we have. How would you propose we do this?

It’s pissing me off tbh.

My kids go to a small independent school. Class sizes are ten kids per class. One class per year group. They are only allowing reception and year one in and one older group in secondary level.

And I’m still paying for the privilege of them not being allowed to go back!

They should be in groups of no more than 15. That’s half a class. How do you propose schools go forward with this?

They need double the classrooms and double the staff, which most schools do not have. Surely you’re not naive enough to think every class has a TA spare?

We are allowing 15 per bubble, but still can’t open to all year groups asked due to numbers of key workers and having enough staff to look after bubbles plus rooms for bubbles to go go in. We have 3 key worker groups, 2 bubbles for year r and 6 , that’s 7 bubbles , we have seven classrooms. So if we for the guidelines what else can we do?

It is incredible the hate for teachers in this country isnt it.

We aren't pouring hate on dentists or all the nhs roles unable to open.

We arent looking to the gov for more training/support/finance/outdoor washrooms/extra buildings as some cou tries have done,

We have one of the highest death rates and onstead of focusing on why or sorting it we blame.... teachers!

Problem is, schools aren’t going to be able to magic up more space by September either so it could be a long time until every year group is back.

Somebody somewhere failed the basic maths of halve the class sizes, double the rooms needed.
We can't do right for wrong. Guidelines everywhere say 2metres as a social distance, schools are doing their best in this uncertain time. We are being told that masks aren't necessary but anywhere else where you are in contact for more than 15 minutes, you need them.
In today's litigious society, parents will sue if their child catches the virus and it could be proved that a guideline wasn't followed, even if it would be nigh on impossible.

Classes sizes are normal 30+, if pupils need to be in classes capped at 15 then schools will need double the number of classrooms in primary schools. There is no one stopping it, it’s lack of resources.

I can envision a possibility for secondary year 10 and year 12 where they do a couple of half days per subject every two weeks. So two mornings of English in a row and then say two afternoons of maths two weeks later.