Honestly who’s responsible for stopping the plan for dc back to school

[sunshineanddaffodils]

Is it government, head teachers or unions?
I know its’s been blamed at lot on government guidelines but it seems different head teachers are able to interpret them completely differently - some allowing bubbles of 15 but some only focusing on social distancing even though this isn’t a requirement.
So are government being held to ransom by unions or not?

brakethree - you make a valid point in that most places of employment are either applying social distancing, or providing PPE or the people involved are only fleetingly in contact. For schools to open normally they would be fairly unique in applying neither social distancing or PPE but also being in sustained contact and mainly indoors.

I have thought about PPE a lot and it is more something you wear for a specific task. The facemask is particularly problematic for teaching. It would make more sense for the pupils to wear them.

Yes, we're not allowed to wear PPE.

Why can't all teachers wear full PPE - mask, visor, apron etc like hospital staff and work?

For all the reasons above, it was also thought the little ones might be more scared if their teacher was kitted out like he or she was starring in Contagion. Of course, if they'd sent the older ones back first, it might not have been such a big issue. But the Govt insisted it was vital N, R and Y1 were the first to return along with Y6.

Well the Government issued guidance with its usual complete detachment from how schools actually operate and how children naturally behave.

Schools tried to rigidly adhere to the "guidance" as if it were "rules" with inflexible thinking.

So its a bit of both I'd say.

The government is responsible. They've created the guidelines and are not yet prepared to relax the key limitations they've come up with.

See example - "We are NOT ALLOWED to wear PPE"...Guidance says "PPE is not appropriate" or "teachers/staff will not require PPE beyond that which will normally used".

Its guidance...a school could look at that, risk assess and decide that PPE would work in X way". But they don't instead they decide "OMG we cant have any PPE in any circumstances we're screwed".

@sunshineanddaffodils

OK thank you for the explanations which I have listened to. I don't in anyway hate teachers. I am just so sad watching my dc becoming quieter, missing friends, loosing motivation. Sorry if this has come across as teacher bashing.

I didn't necessarily take your OP as teacher-bashing. I completely understand why you're asking and I'm glad pp here have explained what's going on.

I'm a teacher in school right now (on an early lunch break due to a meeting at midday) and it's sad for us too. We want the children back, the vast majority of us don't like remote teaching (or even if we do like it, we'd much rather be in a classroom again). We know children and young people are being affected and we're mentally, and actually, preparing for what will need to be done when they do return; lots of mental health work, reminders of the structure and expectations of school, help with peer interaction and socialising, not to mention the academic side.

This is all going to be on schools when returns happen and it's going to be hard for most staff and many pupils. It's frustrating and upsetting.

streamingbannersofdawn

You're about six weeks behind with your comment – the schools and unions WERE questioning the use of PPE but now they're all back without it, except in the circumstances that a child takes ill and they need to sit with them while a parent arrives.

Ultimately the responsibility lies with the government. With focus, will, imagination and a clear programme of work we would have a roadmap for how all children would return to school and clear standards and expectations for home schooling provision.

Instead we have a voluntary muddle in which some schools and teachers are delivering brilliantly and imaginatively for children both in school and out, while others are sending chirpy ‘learning letters’ about how much they’re enjoying baking and their garden while sending through the odd White Rose maths worksheet.

Some children are getting amazing provision, some aren’t but have parents who are able to cobble something together for them, while others are getting neither.

My eldest’s headteacher is enjoying a performative sulk about reopening to two year groups (not following the government guidelines there) by ditching most of the provision for the rest of the year groups.

No one is giving any priority to children’s socialisation or mental health.

The blame game will no doubt swirl but ultimately this is a question of state provision and the UK government, having taken so much provision out of local authority hands, is responsible for delivering a workable solutions that isn’t reliant on head teachers’ individual interpretations of the current scientific evidence.

Op,you've said yourself guidelines say no more than 15 in a bubble.

They do also expect social distancing as well but forget that for a minute.

30 children on average in a class.

So 30 children, 1 teacher, 1 classroom.

Even if schools adhere to 15 in a bubble for 30 children they now need 2 teachers and 2 classrooms.

So, double what they needed the day before lockdown.

Where do you think schools can magic up these extra staff and classrooms from?

Quite why government have only just realised the flaw in their argument goodness knows but it's hardly schools or teachers fault that we don't have twice as many staff or classrooms knocking around is it?

Definitely government. All this money suddenly made available for the furlough scheme yet not a penny on education. I could not be more impressed with our schools and teachers in my area - they are doing their very best with zero support and investment from the government.

Surely all this would be solved if they just reduced the 2 metre rule?

@SausageCrush

Surely all this would be solved if they just reduced the 2 metre rule?

They can only solve it by allowing thirty children back in a class.

It's not just the two metre rule - it's the fifteen children in a class that's the problem

I’m absolutely gutted that my children almost certainly won’t get to go back to school this school year. Year 4 and 5, both DH and I working full time from home, we are at breaking point. Very little input from the school in relation to learning. Just lots of happy photos on school fb page of everyone doing lots of happy crafts and baking. Well lucky them.

I was planning to write to the head teacher asking her and the governors to please please not rule out very part time (just one day a week!!) schooling for those not lucky enough to be in the magic year groups or key workers.

But then I looked at the class lists from the school newsletter and did the maths. 14 classes usually, 13 classes right now. There must be a quarter of years R,1 and 6 not chosen to come in so far. About a quarter of children must be meeting key worker/vulnerable criteria and need to be catered for every day. They can’t increase provision without reducing it considerably for years R, 1 and 6. And add in cleaning in between if different groups on different days. It just doesn’t work.

I’ve just researched local independent schools as surely they will open first and have more provision in September. I thought maybe I could afford it without my usual expensive childcare, only for the rest of primary. No funnily enough I can’t stretch to £37k pa.

I feel absolute despair. For their education, for their social skills, their fitness, and for us as a family.

Government and school representatives need to work TOGETHER with the aim of working out how to get as many children in school as often as possible. Don’t accept the limitations, question the basis of assumptions, work out new ways round things. money should not be a barrier.

I think the Welsh model of all year groups back part-time is better than just certain year groups back in school and others not at all.

My dc go to a small school In Wales and they will go back 50% of the time for four weeks. Not ideal but better than nothing at all especially as we are going into the summer holidays.

brakethree

I still don't see schools, unions and teachers coming up with what they actually want.

Then you haven't been looking or you have been ignoring the many, many , MANY posts by teachers on here and the the unions saying what they/we would like.

Surely all this would be solved if they just reduced the 2 metre rule?

What?! By that "argument," you could say that surely this would all also be solved if they abandoned social distancing and the requirement for PPE, started up air travel again and everyone "just" went back to work as before.
But they won't. Why not? Because fucking COVID!!!!

@Streamingbannersofdawn

See example - "We are NOT ALLOWED to wear PPE"...Guidance says "PPE is not appropriate" or "teachers/staff will not require PPE beyond that which will normally used".

Its guidance...a school could look at that, risk assess and decide that PPE would work in X way". But they don't instead they decide "OMG we cant have any PPE in any circumstances we're screwed".

We have PPE available for staff should they choose to wear it. Thats not the issue.

The issues is that the guidance clearly states no more than 15 pupils per bubble and that means we need double the classrooms and teachers in order to be able to facilitate this.

Where are these extra rooms and teachers coming from?

We attempted to open to Y6 yesterday but it was a disaster. We were expecting 6/30 children but only 1 turned up. We had to phone her mum and see if she wanted her daughter to stay in school on her own. Obviously she didn't so now we're back to 0.

We're located in Manchester though where the R rate is over 1 and on the up though so it is understandable that parents are concerned.

As for the bigger picture, schools were never going to be able to magic up twice the amount of classrooms and double the amount of staff, especially during a global pandemic when staff levels are already low. We have 12 (40%) of our staff currently shielding.

@FrippEnos

brakethree

I still don't see schools, unions and teachers coming up with what they actually want.

Then you haven't been looking or you have been ignoring the many, many , MANY posts by teachers on here and the the unions saying what they/we would like.

I would quite like to go back to normal. Not sure thats going to happen...

It’s so disgusting how children are being treated in this crisis. We’ll probably have gyms and shopping malls open before schools because the businesses shout louder at the government and children don’t have a voice in policy

As for the bigger picture, schools were never going to be able to magic up twice the amount of classrooms and double the amount of staff, especially during a global pandemic when staff levels are already low. We have 12 (40%) of our staff currently shielding.

If you believe the accusations on many of these threads it's simply a lack of a can do attitude.

Perhaps teachers could put their minds to it and build an extra school in the car park, and clone an entire teaching staff while they're at it. That will double classrooms and staff.

Come on teachers, all it needs is a "can do" attitude.

I am just so sad watching my dc becoming quieter, missing friends, loosing motivation

OP - teachers know this. We really do. And we see it in our own children. The thing is, this covid thing is going to last longer than us going back to school (unless the miracle vaccine happens sooner rather than later but we can't count on that) so as parents, we are all going to have to find ways of keeping spirits up as more people inevitably die and more of us are touched by covid as a serious illness, redundancy, recession, etc. etc. etc. It won't end by going back to school. I am working hard with my children to look every day at what we do have, not what we don't and to recognise that we need to be grateful for that. I have relaxed any kind of screen time rules and given them access to everything such as Netflix, Prime, DisneyPlus, Audible, Readly etc. I have a budding chef and I have gone out of my way to source some basics like flour, baking powder and icing sugar and he is cooking and baking most days (there might be an ulterior motive in that for me!). My only caveat on school work is that if a teacher contacts me to say something hasn't been done, the internet will go off until it is done - it's only happened once! We eat together every day and I insist on showers regularly (boys) and we watch the updates once a week and shout abuse collectively at whichever politican is question dodging (and anything related to Cummings), but we are very relaxed generally and have been remarkably civilised up till now. They have learnt to make their own lunch and not bother me whilst I am teaching.

Obviously, I am lucky to be able to afford all that and I also recognise I am fortunate that they are not struggling as much as some are but I do think it is important not to place pressure on them and keep things as low key and relaxed as possible. This is not over and we will be feeling the reprecussion of it for many, many years to come. It is important that our children focus on building their futures and we need to help them to do that. Schools are only part of the picture.

Perhaps teachers could put their minds to it and build an extra school in the car park, and clone an entire teaching staff while they're at it. That will double classrooms and staff

Ah yes, the can do attitude we are lacking! Utterly hilarious. Not.
I particularly love the 'if you're not going to work, you should be sacked and we'll get someone who will work' coupled with 'millions will be unemployed so there'll be no shortage of teachers next year'. If only, eh?!

As an aside, I am concerned about training for next year. Which schools are going to want to entertain trainees with all this shit going on?

Quite and coupled with the automatic QTS awarded to PGCE students as their training ended in March it's going to be hard going next year isn't it?

You'll have year 11 and 13 going back into exam years having missed two terms of learning coupled with NQTs who basically had half a year of training and a staff of teachers desperately trying not catch students up with no time to give NQTs the support they will need.

It's an absolute mess lacking leadership from the department of education