Honestly who’s responsible for stopping the plan for dc back to school

[sunshineanddaffodils]

Is it government, head teachers or unions?
I know its’s been blamed at lot on government guidelines but it seems different head teachers are able to interpret them completely differently - some allowing bubbles of 15 but some only focusing on social distancing even though this isn’t a requirement.
So are government being held to ransom by unions or not?

@sunshineanddaffodils

Is it government, head teachers or unions? I know its’s been blamed at lot on government guidelines but it seems different head teachers are able to interpret them completely differently - some allowing bubbles of 15 but some only focusing on social distancing even though this isn’t a requirement. So are government being held to ransom by unions or not?

Given that the unions in Wales are not substantially different to those in England and our schools are re-opening on a reduce capacity for all years as of 29th June this looks like a government decision...it's a particularly unfair decision too.

Instead of mandating that all schools should re-open and offer the necessary support they've done sloping shoulders and let the schools themselves take the blame for not re-opening. Parents anger will then be directed at headteacher so-and-so instead of with the government. BoJo continues to be a sly snake!

The people responsible are the architects who designed the schools and the authorities who signed off the plans .

How very dare they not provide adequate space so that all year groups could be accommodated in class sizes of 15 .

because the government will happily blame schools if anything goes wrong, as will parents

Someone who talks sense.

Sick of the teacher bashing. Or ‘schools’ bashing.

Everyone’s an expert it seems when it comes to schools.

Each school has a different layout, some have halls, gyms, lunch halls, outside space they can utilise. Some have full staff others have bare minimum. Some have TAs in every class so can split, others have one or two for special needs only.

For the nth time - primary schools, in the main, are SMALL.

For example, my local school is 1 form entry. We have 7 classrooms, 7 teachers, and 6 TA.
Each bubble requires 2 adults and 1 classroom. We have only just got enough staff to open 7 bubbles IF the deputy has one. And if no one is ill. We are at capacity already with only keyworker and year 1/R children. There is no room

Please, for the love of God, just do the basic maths. We can't just magic up new classrooms and halls, or loos.

sunshineanddaffodils

is that a yes or a no?

I teach small groups. I have ten maximum and five minimum in my secondary groups. I cannot fir ten in my room but by dint of me moving furniture (myself), I can. Social distancing will mean I can fit three, perhaps four in my room. What do I do with the others?

Secondary school pupils by and large walk or use public transport. They clump. Teenagers, clump. They will socially distance in school because we will make them but they won't be able to outside of school. Then there will be the bullies and oafs who will think it really funny to cough and sneeze deliberately over the girls or year 7s. The bit inside school is manageable with marquees and tents in the grounds and lots and lots of staff. Plus we will be teaching some in school while simultaneously teaching those remotely because they are shielded or can't come in. I love my job. I am teaching full lessons via the screen, running assemblies with activities, running extra curricular. I'm now suffering from fatigue issues. It's not the teachers or the unions but the govt keeps changing its mind and giving very little notice. Who knows what September will look like. Perhaps if people could control their desires to go to busy places then we could all get on with our lives more quickly. As the nurse in the chemo suite said to me yesterday 'you teachers are way more vulnerable than us. At least we have protection'. I really want to get back to school. It's been joyful seeing the junior school reopening but that hasn't been without problems. At the moment all the parents are abiding by rules, conscientiously dropping and collecting at the right times. Of course that is going to slip - look how lockdown has slipped. We have huge spirit in my school, and we have survived two world wars, including being bombed, evacuated, etc so we will overcome this but really we need everyone to pull together not all this blaming happening.

I wasn't going to post but here goes...
I am a teacher. I am very happy to be back at work. I have been phoning parents telling them we are ready to welcome back the year 6 children and reassuring them that it is safe and that the kids who are in are absolutely fine. Yesterday, I returned home to find a family member ill with symptoms. I am now isolating while she is tested. My bubble is now off school while we wait for test results as are the other staff I worked closest with. This is the reality of what it will be like. No-one wants this. The school I work in have followed the guidance to the letter before reopening. The unions have had no input other than to read the risk assessment and make suggestions. The vast majority of teachers are back at work. I would love to open to more children. I have sent my own dd back but it is naive and wishful thinking to suggest that there is some malevolent, work shy force trying to subvert guidance. Even if you dump social distancing (which you would be utterly mad to do as if god forbid a child became sick and died, you would be blamed), there are not enough classrooms or teachers for classes of 15 throughout the school.

OK thank you for the explanations which I have listened to. I don't in anyway hate teachers. I am just so sad watching my dc becoming quieter, missing friends, loosing motivation. Sorry if this has come across as teacher bashing.

Why do you need to blame someone?

Perhaps there is a good reason, local cv19 hotspot, high % of teachers with underlying conditions, inflexible school buildings/site, staff sickness.....

It COULD be political but not necessarily. Has your head teacher issued a statement? What does (s)he say?

@sunshineanddaffodils
I completely understand how you feel. My dd is absolutely gutted that she is at home again whilst we wait for test results; she was so happy to go back. It is utterly awful.

sunshineanddaffodils

I sympathise with your situation, but the guidelines are a mess.
Primary are different to Secondary.

Primary as I understand are in a set bubble with a set teacher. the bubble should be no more than 15 although the school can adjust the numbers below that.

Secondary is limited number of no more than 1/4 of the pupils in at one time, possibly with bubbles but also social distancing.

Either way it is seriously confusing and it is no wonder that different schools are doing different things.

The only way we would be able to open to all year groups in the way we have for R, 1 and 6 (groups of 15 in for 2 days a week), would be to stop the key worker and vulnerable provision. Lots of our parents have kept their children in the key worker group because they want/need flexibility on when their children are in. If we let all children come in for 2 days only (directed by school, not chosen), we could do it, although staff would obviously have to work with two groups a week which isn't strictly within the guidelines.

Everyone blaming everyone else. Guidance has been put in place but the interpretation of this shows how some schools will go out of their way to continue to provide an education to the best of their ability whilst others will do the minimum.

What exactly needs to be in place for schools to open. Emma Barnet is interviewing a guy on 5Live now and he cannot answer a question about what schools/teachers want and are doing to get schools open.

Why can't all teachers wear full PPE - mask, visor, apron etc like hospital staff and work? Nurses and doctors are working all day around infected people, they have to make it work. Where there's a will there's a way.

The government.

Either that or the teacher you saw down their allotment once back in April. It's probably their choice that schools aren't open fully, cos they want nice courgettes this year. ON FULL PAY DAMN THEM.

Why can't all teachers wear full PPE - mask, visor, apron etc like hospital staff and work?

We were told we 'didn't need it'.

brakethree
I am not sure that children would understand what their teachers were saying if they were wearing full PPE.

'Because you were told you didn't need it'. I was told I didn't need a mask but I have been wearing one since lockdown when I have been shopping because it was obvious that masks offered protection (look at other countries who have dealt with previous serious outbreaks of viruses like corona). Surprise surprise a month later we are told to wear masks. If you are worried about being heard, get a microphone - let's change this to making this work rather than the constant 'why not'. I still don't see schools, unions and teachers coming up with what they actually want. Emma Barnet just asked an education spokesperson this on 5Live, he couldn't answer, just said 'when it's safe'. That'll be next year then because until we have a vaccine it won't be 100% safe.

It's the Government's fault, categorically. Their own SAGE scientists came up with NINE scenarios for getting schools back safely, including part-time rotas. In April/May the teaching unions asked THREE times for urgent meetings to discuss the best and safest way to get children back. But no, the Govt took it upon themselves to come up with their own plan, no doubt scribbled down on the back of an envelope by Dominic Cummings, and when schools went, hang on, that won't work, everyone called teachers lazy and feckless for objecting. The first time the scientists and the unions even met in person to discuss the schools plan was a week AFTER the June 1 announcement was made. So instead of consulting the people who actually run schools and listening to the scientists who are meant to be getting us out of lockdown, the Govt ignored both and here we are, in a right mess.

I fear this was another post from a frustrated parent (totally get the frustration!) posting a bit prematurely before actually reading the school guidance. Anyone who has fully read the guidance, and then tried to apply that to a basic understanding of staffing levels and classroom space in a state school soon begins to realise that this isn't a case of "school/head says no" - it's an impossible situation. The schools cannot simply disregard the guidance and offer spaces to every year group - the possible legal implications would be hideous, and they are, after all, a public sector arm that follows direction from government.

I am not a teacher, but I know that this isn't just a ploy for teachers to sit at home watching Netflix and sunbathing. In fact, since the reintroduction of R/Yr1/Yr6 every single primary teacher I know is now in school 5 days a week on a full-time schedule again.

OP - great to see your post above that you now understand a bit more about the situation and that it's not an easy fix. We're all tired. We're all upset for our kids. But we need to stop the blame game re: schools and focus attentions on how we can all help to resolve the issue - ultimately, it's a gov problem and sadly the inherent underfunding of education over the past several years has made this situation far worse.

Government.

They won’t issue formal help or guidance, teachers have kids too and some of their kids won’t have childcare, some teachers have to shield.

Plus they have the social distancing to contend with and schools, having been underfunded for decades, don’t have the space to adhere to it.

Handy of Boris to deflect it to schools though. Classic Tory tactic.

@brakethree
Why can't all teachers wear full PPE - mask, visor, apron etc like hospital staff and work?

Teachers were told they "do not need it" and also categorically not to wear their own. At least in the LA where I live (this was raised as an FAQ to our LA)

Why can't all teachers wear full PPE - mask, visor, apron etc like hospital staff and work?

What a stupid suggestion.

@Longwhiskers14

It's the Government's fault, categorically. Their own SAGE scientists came up with NINE scenarios for getting schools back safely, including part-time rotas. In April/May the teaching unions asked THREE times for urgent meetings to discuss the best and safest way to get children back. But no, the Govt took it upon themselves to come up with their own plan, no doubt scribbled down on the back of an envelope by Dominic Cummings, and when schools went, hang on, that won't work, everyone called teachers lazy and feckless for objecting. The first time the scientists and the unions even met in person to discuss the schools plan was a week AFTER the June 1 announcement was made. So instead of consulting the people who actually run schools and listening to the scientists who are meant to be getting us out of lockdown, the Govt ignored both and here we are, in a right mess.

Yes, and those of us who, you know, have some kind of experience in running schools were (in addition to being lazy and feckless) accused of not have a "can-do" attitude. Apparently, all other sectors have put some effort into new ways of working but the lazy bastard teachers point-blank refuse to, because we're more interested in having even longer holidays than usual. Never mind the actual FACTS of the matter (schools have adapted with a seismic shift to the logistics of normal service), lets stick to our agenda of bashing them as much as possible. Oh, and starting a few petitions, while we're at it.

Why can't all teachers wear full PPE - mask, visor, apron etc like hospital staff and work?

Apparently, it's not necessary - either because the virus is scared of teachers, so won't cross the threshold at the school gate, or because no one gives a fuck if teachers catch it (and pass it on to the wider community while they're at it).