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Schools fubared till November?

999 replies

Clemmieandareallybigbunfight · 03/06/2020 15:41

Disruption to schools could continue to November, MPs told www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-52895640

Is this a dystopian joke?

Are we actually trying to fuck up our kids?

Schools need to be instructed to open fully five days a week with enhanced on day cleaning, increased buses to allow distancing, staggered start and finish, covered but open refuge areas allowing distancing whilst outside in all weathers for breaks and no assemblies. Relatively low investment needed, huge gain economically but more importantly for our kids education and mental health. Some of these kids will never get back to school if they are out for so long. Some will fail to achieve their potential. And all for an illness with a tiny mortality rate overall?

OP posts:
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ProsperTheBear · 03/06/2020 22:52

I am not sure where that November comes from, and primary schools are due to reopen in England fully by July apparently!

2 weeks off at Easter
1 week off in May
6 weeks off in the summer

from March to September even, it's definitively not 7 months when you include all the scheduled breaks.

tootyfruitypickle · 03/06/2020 22:54

I really really don’t understand why some posters on here think that parents are complaining about spending time with their children. It’s not that at all. I am a single parent with a y7. I work full time. She is an able and disciplined student . For the first few weeks she could do very little as her mental health went downhill very quickly. I focused on getting her novels, fun apps, things she could enjoy — while I worked ALL DAY. The most I could manage was to have lunch with her . Recently she’s managed to crack on with her work and things are better - but mornings only then she chills out in the afternoon . The most I can do is sort her work and provide her with a timetable . I can’t home school her .

This is not some joyous time together. This is boring drudgery. I took half term as leave which was lovely and we enjoyed time together . But the rest of the time I am working and she is basically doing a few hours of homeowrk a day (although I have to say the work is definitely improving as teachers find solutions to remote learning)

I’d love to spend 3 months hanging out with her. But that’s not the situation

Delatron · 03/06/2020 22:55

November is the new September!

snowballer · 03/06/2020 22:55

Prosper - the November question is the topic of this thread. The mention of November is in the actual article in the opening post... am I in an alternate universe?!

Workingmum34 · 03/06/2020 22:59

I work in a large secondary school we have been open throughout but planning to get more y10 in is a nightmare, but we are doing it. Yes kids might be relatively unaffected but anyone who has ever been in a school during winter vomiting virus season knows how quickly it spreads. You say have shielding teachers working on admin - not sure what you think they would be doing.

So one child gets it. That’s 15 other students and their families affected - say 3 other people at home. On a normal timetable they would see 6 teachers a day at least. This teachers would also see 5x 15 other students. That’s over three hundred people affected without the additional adults needed. Put a bubble in - well it’s not the same as primary. You have different teachers for a reason. So one child who has been sent to school Ill (we had lots before lockdown who were in school poorly but who couldn’t be collected as parents were self isolating). People are told to wear face masks in shops but it’s not needed in schools.

Also imagine what would happen if a child did something like tried to run away - which they do sometimes - and had to be stopped by an adult for their own safety. Another child took a photo and emailed it home to a parent who put it on Facebook saying teachers weren’t social distancing - this was seen by other parents who shared it. Suddenly people loose faith in a school. You might say this is extreme but it happened at a school I know with a different incident that before the school had time to tell parents the local press were at the gates.

Schools aren’t the nhs. They are busy, overcrowded and underfunded. All the things that the government have offered - free meals in holidays, laptops (yet to arrive) are being paid for by the schools in money they have not got and won’t get back. Same with the additional cleaning needed to stay open for small numbers. Recruit more teachers - from where? Every year many schools rely on supply cover supervisors who are not qualified teachers.

No it is not idea. Yes teachers are working very hard at home. They are not on holiday. We want to be back. But no one is making it easy.

Maryann1975 · 03/06/2020 23:01

@xxyzz Why are you pretending that this is the equivalent of the school holidays? You don’t seem to have any idea How hard lock down has been for some families. Yes, I have three children Aged between 14 and 9 and in an ideal world they would all play beautifully together all day long. But in reality, the one of them is missing school massively for the social side, One is missing the academic side and my attempts at teaching top set ks3 are not really cutting it and the other was already on the waiting list for mental health issues. The change in routine has greatly affected Her even further and it is a constant worry how much longer we will have to wait for help. Having a member of the family with mental health issues puts immense pressure on all relationships in the family, so no, it is nothing like any other school holiday we have ever had in the past.

you can piss off with your questions about why my children dislike being around me so much. If you can not figure out why children are not enjoying this time (Which is coming up to double the length of their normal summer holidays) with no extended family visits, no outings, no holidays and very little to look forward to, You must be one of the densest people I have ever come across!

YounghillKang · 03/06/2020 23:04

My interest in, and knowledge of the impact of trades unions has't been derived from the media, but from many years of post-graduate study.

Presumably you hold more than an MA? As that’s one year or two, if part-time, at the most. Also, you would then presumably be aware that economists disagree on whether or not unions negatively impact economies, for example a positive might be the contribution of unions to lessening social inequality: since one negative impact of widening social inequality can be less investment in areas such as education, just one basic example.
In other words, the impact of unionisation is a subject for debate not an absolute, i.e. fixed, positive or negative. It’s pretty ignorant of you to suggest otherwise, tbh

Unless of course you are one of those who think profits are the highest good or you support the ability of the wealthy or the powerful to make workers dance to their tune at the expense of their health, safety, pay or conditions (rather like a throwback to Victorian times) but perhaps that’s exactly who you are?

MoreW1ne · 03/06/2020 23:04

Well on a lighter note teachers, at least all this has proved the job is safe for the future. Doesn't look like being replaced by technology/other ideas any time soon.

tootyfruitypickle · 03/06/2020 23:06

@Maryann1975 beautifully put !

Useruseruserusee · 03/06/2020 23:08

I’m sure we can all accept that schools opening more widely is complex and tricky and symptomatic of lockdown easing in general. It’s a tightrope between easing and public health because the economy will also suffer if the virus tears through the country.

We need to acknowledge our own biases too. I am a teacher and I’m back in full time now (was on a rota before). I am scared because of my personal situation - which is that my toddler is medically vulnerable as high risk of respiratory infections due to a rare health condition. Every winter he is hospitalised with coughs and colds and I am scared of what covid would be like for him. Had covid happened last year, he would be shielding but this winter was somewhat better for him so he gets to just be clinically vulnerable and I get to go into work. I think we are surely all human enough to see why I am scared about this. I’m still going into work as directed, I’m not kicking up a fuss but this circumstance colours how I feel about the wider opening of schools.

However, my sister is struggling to WFH whilst home schooling her two children. They are all low risk and would love schools to just open normally to all year groups. Their personal situation is colouring her thoughts too.

There has to be a middle course for a while. At this point no one knows how long it will last.

Entanglement · 03/06/2020 23:09

There's no economy left to save, you just don't realise it yet. There will be a global depression. Kids aren't missing out on anything, the qualifications will be worth shit. May as well save as many lives as possible as we prepare for a very different world.

MissLLM · 03/06/2020 23:13

@EmpressoftheMundane it is not the Head teachers decision to impose fines or refuse holiday. My head has family abroad and would love to approve extended family visits that are cheaper in term time. But he is not legally allowed and the absence goes down as unauthorised. It is the government that mandates this.

And to other posters, please read previous posts! So many things that are being complained about are not within a teacher's power to change,sometimes not even the leadership team's! Most of what is being discussed here has been dictated by government guidance and then some local authorities. Yes some schools have said no to pupils going back but they have to state reasons and cleaning resources and space are probably the reasons. No extra money has been allocated for cleaning supplies, pipe, soap or sanitizer, this is coming out of existing budgets that have been dessimated by this government. Most schools already run in a deficit and that is after losing many much needed support staff, cutting essential supplies and having to ignore vital repair work. To the PP who complained about teachers demanding too much money... teaching is amongst one of the lowest paid professional roles in this country we deserve fair pay and fair pay increases which we haven't properly received for many years. Our pay is nothing to do with this crisis and how it should be dealt with or funded. It really is confusing to me how many people on here do not blame the government for the shit situation schools are in and come here to have a go at the teachers with no real understanding about how schools work and no interest in listening to those that do know.

With regards to those who are vulnerable, shame on PP for saying they should suck it up and work or get fired! How inhumane and frankly disgusting. For those who dont bother to read the official government advice or who believe people are shielding for the fun of it, here is the list of groups that are clinically extremely vulnerable:
Clinically extremely vulnerable people may include:

Clinically extremely vulnerable people may include:

Solid organ transplant recipients.
People with specific cancers:
people with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy
people with lung cancer who are undergoing radical radiotherapy
people with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia, lymphoma or myeloma who are at any stage of treatment
people having immunotherapy or other continuing antibody treatments for cancer
people having other targeted cancer treatments which can affect the immune system, such as protein kinase inhibitors or PARP inhibitors
people who have had bone marrow or stem cell transplants in the last 6 months, or who are still taking immunosuppression drugs
People with severe respiratory conditions including all cystic fibrosis, severe asthma and severe chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).
People with rare diseases that significantly increase the risk of infections (such as severe combined immunodeficiency (SCID), homozygous sickle cell).
People on immunosuppression therapies sufficient to significantly increase risk of infection.
Women who are pregnant with significant heart disease, congenital or acquired.
Other people have also been classed as clinically extremely vulnerable, based on clinical judgement and an assessment of their needs. GPs and hospital clinicians have been provided with guidance to support these decisions.

I don't see how any of those conditions would usually stop someone from working in a school in normal circumstances and I fully believe that no one should risk their loves or their family's for anyone or anything, let alone some of you posters on here who seem downright arrogant, entitled and nasty. I'm so glad I clearly dont teach any of your children as the parents in my school are so much nicer, more rational and clearly smarter. That point is not directed at all parents who want their kids to go back, just the ones who dont give a shit about themselves and their own darling children.

The list of clinically vulnerable from the government guidance is here:
aged 70 or older (regardless of medical conditions)
under 70 with an underlying health condition listed below (that is, anyone instructed to get a flu jab each year on medical grounds):

chronic (long-term) mild to moderate respiratory diseases, such as asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), emphysema or bronchitis
chronic heart disease, such as heart failure
chronic kidney disease
chronic liver disease, such as hepatitis
chronic neurological conditions, such as Parkinson’s disease, motor neurone disease, multiple sclerosis (MS), or cerebral palsy
diabetes
a weakened immune system as the result of certain conditions or medicines they are taking (such as steroid tablets)
being seriously overweight (a body mass index (BMI) of 40 or above)
pregnant women

This category if individuals has been given this guidance: Education and childcare settings should endeavour to support this, for example by asking staff to support remote education, carry out lesson planning or other roles which can be done from home. If clinically vulnerable (but not clinically extremely vulnerable) individuals cannot work from home, they should be offered the safest available on-site roles, staying 2 metres away from others wherever possible, although the individual may choose to take on a role that does not allow for this distance if they prefer to do so. If they have to spend time within 2 metres of other people, settings must carefully assess and discuss with them whether this involves an acceptable level of risk.

No one is staying at home 'vulnerable' for fun. I am desperate to get back to work and see my class, not just a bubble, my whole class as a group, but my head wont let me in, probably to cover the schools back from a health and safety legal point of view if anything were to happen to me, and I fully support that as much as I hate it!

Just leave teachers alone! We've had to teach and care for your children for many years with cuts to services and funding and less support in school, whether that is adults for children, training or otherwise, and we have managed. It's been brutal but we are here and we have coped, although some haven't and rightly left the professional as it has changed beyond recognition during this government. Children are clearly not the focus of this government's agenda and they haven't been for many many years and I wish those who are complaining now would have supported us in our battle with this over the years. BLAME THE GOVERNMENT not the schools! Yes there are shitty schools and maybe all of mumsnet happen to send their kids to these schools and the good schools are reserved for non-mumsnet users? Blame the government, complain to them but leave us alone please!

Rainbow12e · 03/06/2020 23:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HepzibahGreen · 03/06/2020 23:15

I exclusively teach "difficult" children. Teachers making snide comments about parents' ability to teach their children effectively at home in a time of heightened tension and reduced support is not a helpful contribution to a discussion about schools reopening.

Thank you Fallen I agree.
And FFS, even teachers struggle to teach their own kids, "difficult" or not!

Pootle40 · 03/06/2020 23:16

@snowballer

I agree with everything you said. Absolutely spot on.

MrsArchchancellorRidcully · 03/06/2020 23:20

I have to say if my children are not being given a full education fairly soon I'll join the class lawsuit and sue.

Kids are low risk. Virus burning itself out. Australia fully back to school no social distancing.

Australia is NOT the same as New Zealand. It's cases have dropped but not zero. If we get to those levels there's no reason not to open fully. I'll be fucked if I see pubs and restaurants opening before schools. And really how will people get back to work??

eeeyoresmiles · 03/06/2020 23:22

@Starcup

Totally agree OP.

They’re messing up the lives of the majority for the sake of the minority!!! Absolutely disgusting.

If you’re vulnerable then shield. Why the hell does everyone else have to have their lives and the lives of their children turned upside down for potentially years?!!

The vast majority of people have been understanding and compliant but there’s no way that they are going to put the lives of others above their own families. And they shouldn’t be expected too!!!!

The whole country has literally come to a halt for a virus that the vast majority of people will shake off like a cold.

"The vast majority of people have been understanding and compliant but there’s no way that they are going to put the lives of others above their own families. And they shouldn’t be expected too!!!!"

Unless they're teachers or nurses, right? Or doctors or shop workers or bus drivers? They all have to put themselves and their families at risk, without making a fuss, so you can get your life back, because you're not vulnerable so it's not fair you should suffer in any way?

Pootle40 · 03/06/2020 23:24

@NikeDeLaSwoosh

I wasn't offended. You were presenting facts.

MH1111 · 03/06/2020 23:25

The government should pay schools per pupil taught in school from September onwards. Shielding staff on a 50% furlough scheme, topped up by the school at their discretion.

Kids should not be required to social distancing as risks to them are minuscule.

There problem solved

FrippEnos · 03/06/2020 23:26

snowballer

Where have I "attacked" another poster?
Is this another of those "facts" that you like?

I am asking you to justify your support for opinions that are being presented as facts.

As you don#'t want to debate that is fine, but at least stick to the thruth.

MrsArchchancellorRidcully · 03/06/2020 23:27

I'll tell you now if my children aren't going to school they won't be at home alone. I'll invite their mates. Get me back to school now full time no sd.

MoreW1ne · 03/06/2020 23:29

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully I'll be fucked if the pubs don't open with the schools...how do I then get back to work.

Starcup · 03/06/2020 23:29

@eeeyoresmiles

You say that like I have no clue..... when I’m fact, I’m a key worker myself but I don’t cry about going in to work, neither do any of my colleagues.

If we all started crying about it let’s just say the economy would stop alright!

We don’t have ppe either, when we’re dealing with hundreds of people weekly.....

You’ve just got to get on with it

Pootle40 · 03/06/2020 23:30

I'm just going to say this as it's something I've been thinking about a lot recently. I say it as someone who has lost both parents. One at age 51 and the other at 70 after many years in a care home.

It has struck me that in amongst some of the hysteria we have developed some sort of unachievable belief that people are immortal. So everyone gets offended if anyone dare suggest that the highest % of deaths is in the 80+ bracket. Perhaps I am hardened to this through my own experiences.

Sittingontheveranda · 03/06/2020 23:33

2m is a made up number.

This number wasn't made up. It was calculated as being the distance droplets from a sneeze can travel.

Some countries have calculated the distance as being 1.5m, Australia being one, but Australia has a low level of the virus overall.

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