Can we just stop with the school/teacher bashing

[TheWristBoundLatexBitch]

The teachers needed in most schools to do the "bubbles" is at least double what they already have. If it's a two form year, you may need 4 bubbles, so double teachers. Oh and then there is the class rooms!

How do you think schools will magically make this happen???

Some schools are staying shut except key worker children as that's all they can take.

Some schools will take one or two year groups, because they can.

Some schools (not many I'm guessing) will take all that they can back).

If your child goes back they will not be with friends, in their own class or with their teacher. This is childcare because the government said they need to open.

Let's stop bashing schools and teachers, and moaning because your child has a T.A. I'm not even a teacher nor do I work in a school, but I realise the difficulties the schools are facing.

maxonebitch

And the cost of getting them.

Even making them in house would be very expensive.

and that's assuming that the school have the facilities - my DC's school does but many don't.

I barely look at Mumsnet any more for this reason. It's so hostile and there's no call for it.

I'm still sitting here in my house (on half-term) trying to figure out if the fact that I'm from a manual worker, mining family and was the first person in my family to ever finish school and to go uni - thereby transforming me into a middle class person, apparently, has any bearing at all on the fact that quickly opening schools without a thoughtful plan of action was stupid idea.

I don't think it does. At all.

myhips, mumsneedwine, and all of you:

Don't give up hop.

I dropped back into the wider reaches of MN to get an idea of what people are thinking.

Generally, it is heartening.

People do listen.

It's definitely made me feel a lot better and restored my belief that the majority of people recognise this situation for what it is.

So, frustrating though it may be, I for one think it's valuable pressing in with the conversation (& that there is less sympathy for teacher-bashing than we might initially think).

I totally agree with the Catinjapan. We have been increasingly horrified at dds primary schools stance. Not blaming teachers but for the government to instruct heads that their only remit is childcare for key workers and supporting vulnerable families is outrageous. How about educating our children?! I get that as an emergency initial response but nearly 3 months in? Friends who are governors feel the same and the union stance hasn’t helped either.

(Is it possible that posters stop making personal remarks and insults toward other posters. Everytime someone tries to debate this subject, this is what happens and the thread gets shut down)

No, retail staff were not provided with PPE and most still do not wear it now. Some supermarkets, not all, only started putting up screens within the last month. The virus was most active in March and April but shop workers, as key workers, just got on with it then.

I have found it best to take everything on MN about teachers with a pinch of salt. If I feel disheartened by the threads on here I just stop and go back to my own experiences. Despite the reams and reams of moaning on here about lack of work or contact I have not heard this complaint once from any of the families at my school, just gratitude for work set and phone calls and emails home or apologies that they aren't doing much of the work or watching the videos made.

The reality is that the teacher bashers on MN are a tiny minority of parents around the country. The only complaints we need to take notice of are those that come directly from our own families via our own schools.

If you read back, it isnt teachers who are being bashed. It's the other way round.

In general. On any forum on the internet. Why can't people just debate, without picking someone out and making personal remarks at them?

Exactly flax. I haven't seen any teachers called rude names on here just a questioning about the lack of education in some schools. But for questioning that I have been called all manner of rude names (cunt, twat... ) by teachers on here. And seen teachers suggest that any parent who wishes their child was still getting an education is somehow a failure as a parent.

@phlebasconsidered don’t mention mining or thatcher as some snooty person on another thread mocked my upbringing as point scoring. (I know I shouldn’t have mentioned it.) Tough times back then but at least I am middle class now 😂

P.s. I am nor sure what that really means

@StaffAssociationRepresentative
@FrippEnos

If you could please stop making personal remarks then I will try to answer you.

A few weeks ago there were threads galore with demands for teachers to be furloughed or sacked. Someone suggested a couple of days ago that if we were wfh then we should only be paid 80%

I've seen teachers on here, especially recently, called lazy, workshy, overpaid, cowards and swear words.

I have also seen teachers swearing at parents, saying if x then they're bad parents.

Neither is right. Neither is blameless. Let's not say that only one group or the other are doing it. And let's not say all parents or all teachers are the same.

Parents on here calling names seem to be far and few between. Teachers, the same. Most of us are more than able to debate points reasonably without resorting to swearing at each other.

Ha ha, are you joking?? Every single thread about teachers almost without exception contains phrases like "What are teachers doing?", "Teachers don't want their extra-long holidays to end", "Teachers are sitting in their gardens all day drinking gin"..

I have debated on countless threads without being rude or name-calling anyone, however teachers as a group are consistently lumped together as lazy, moaning whingers. (Or now, lazy, moaning , middle-class whingers).

If you have an issue with your own child's education, speak to their school. If you aren't happy with their response, see what the LA says. If you want online lessons for all, email your MP and ask why the DfE haven't said this should happen.

But please don't assume that everyone even wants the same provision that you want. I have spoken to plenty of families who don't want any work at all. There are many others who are perfectly happy with what's being set. There are others (myself included) who actively don't want Zoom lessons for their DC.

As was ever the case, teachers and schools can never win. We will never please everyone.

I have debated on countless threads without being rude or name-calling anyone, however teachers as a group are consistently lumped together as lazy, moaning whingers. (Or now, lazy, moaning , middle-class whingers).

"Now"? What do you mean?
Because no one in this topic has actually said this have they?

I haven't seen any teachers called rude names on here just a questioning about the lack of education in some schools

Not sure what forum your on but it certainly isnt MN. It has been galore with people claiming teachers are enjoying long holidays, are work shy, cant be bothered.

But as previous PP have stated it's worth remembering that a majority of the hate towards teachers is generated by the minority. They just happen to be incredibly prolific about it. I've noticed the past few months that I've come to recognise the names of the majority of the verbal individuals who attack teachers and it tends to be a few select people. So please dont think that those who people reflect the attitude of the majority of us who can see and respect the difficult position and the hard work teachers are currently putting into making the situation workable.

Teachers are very middle class nowadays and far removed from many of the communities they travel into to teach.. Not used to the rough and tumble of everyday experience. As with most of the middle classes, they have become far removed from walking the streets, using public transport and so on. This encourages a siege mentality.

I catch the train for work and then walk 10 minutes to school - does that help?

There’s been plenty of name calling from BOTH sides.
Some parents have called teachers lazy and ignorant because they couldn’t magic up zoom sessions against their heads wishes.
Some teachers have called parents incompetent and bad parents because they couldn’t do a full curriculum at home next to a fulltime job.
Some tone death remarks from teachers along the lines of “just enjoy long walks with the kids”
Some tone death remarks from parents (“ just do online lessons”).
let’s just be nice to each other-BOTH sides please.
There have been calm, informative posts from parents and teachers. Thank you to these posters!

@Flaxmeadow

If you weren't trying to rewrite history, I might actually give a fuck.

I think this thread, Flax, highlights the root of the problem. You work in retail and say you haven't got PPE, whereas I've been in 5 different shops since lockdown started and they've all had PPE (screens, gloves, masks and 2m separation for staff and customers).

Does this mean either of us is lying? No, it means we've had different experiences. So when someone else says their school/teacher hasn't provided any learning and their teachers are lounging around at home doing nothing that is completely at odds with my experience from the other side of working just as hard as normal and providing the kids with as good an experience as possible. That doesn't mean either perspectives are wrong, it's the generalisation that's wrong.

@Flaxmeadow are you having a laugh. For your reference I have included some quotes from this thread, that can be construed as teachers being dramatic, lazy, not wanting to do their jobs, cant be bothered, moaning. You might recognise some of it.. quite a lot of it shows complete ignorance to the hard work teachers have been doing these past few months, and just how limited they are by the guidelines regarding issues such as PPE. Likewise a majority of teachers I am acquainted with are very much working class.

Just got on and made the best of it, like all the other key workers did at the time

What I mean is that by refusing PPE they are effectively playing the martyr.

Every other profession I can think of is either carrying on as normal and going out into the world to do their job, or has adapted and is delivering normal service but online.

Teachers are very middle class nowadays and far removed from many of the communities they travel into to teach.. Not used to the rough and tumble of everyday experience. As with most of the middle classes, they have become far removed from walking the streets, using public transport and so on

the reason some people were pissed off is that there seemed to be a huge reluctance from the teaching profession to open schools again....when the rest of us had to go back to work and just get on with things

Flax honestly you’ve been on every single thread which has even a whiff of having a go at teachers, don’t act like you don’t know there’s been a lot of shitty digs made at the profession. There has. You’ve made them. Saying all teachers don’t want to go back to work, they expect better than others, they aren’t thinking of children. You might not be telling people to fuck off but it’s still rude and unpleasant and probably why people don’t want to debate with you.

Oh, and as for this:
Teachers are very middle class nowadays and far removed from many of the communities they travel into to teach.. Not used to the rough and tumble of everyday experience. As with most of the middle classes, they have become far removed from walking the streets, using public transport and so on

This is very close to the teachers don't live in the real world argument. Pre-teaching I did a very 'middle-class' job and the accusation above would probably be fair, despite the fact that my childhood was quite frankly shit from a poverty point of view. I'd argue that as a teacher I see more of the real world than many other jobs - dealing with the effects of poverty, child abuse, neglect, forced marriage, prison sentences, drug abuse/gangs to name but a few. Nothing shocks me anymore.

LittleFoxKit

But those are not personal remarks aimed at particular posters. They are mostly just observations in general. Not sure what the problem is with them. How are those posts being "construed" as the following?

that can be construed as teachers being dramatic, lazy, not wanting to do their jobs, cant be bothered, moaning

And what's wrong with saying a certain demographic is middle class anyway?