Can we just stop with the school/teacher bashing

[TheWristBoundLatexBitch]

The teachers needed in most schools to do the "bubbles" is at least double what they already have. If it's a two form year, you may need 4 bubbles, so double teachers. Oh and then there is the class rooms!

How do you think schools will magically make this happen???

Some schools are staying shut except key worker children as that's all they can take.

Some schools will take one or two year groups, because they can.

Some schools (not many I'm guessing) will take all that they can back).

If your child goes back they will not be with friends, in their own class or with their teacher. This is childcare because the government said they need to open.

Let's stop bashing schools and teachers, and moaning because your child has a T.A. I'm not even a teacher nor do I work in a school, but I realise the difficulties the schools are facing.

[shellysheridan]

Zombiefan, schools are still catering for increasing numbers of children of key workers and may have staff shielding so it's not as simple as 3 year groups out of 7 back.

[shellysheridan]

The guidance suggests that PPE is not required. It's very clear

[DamnYankee]

Speech pathology professional. ...
It's the kids that might pass it to me.
Couldn't insist on masks, unless their parents insist. Would not. My ASD students would freak out.
If they want teletherapy? We can do that. Let's get creative! Bring it!
Not a martyr. I have next to no risk. My DH does, but he is able to WFH and he wants us to get out there - one toe at a time.

[MissMarks]

Why are teachers different to other professionals such as residential care workers?

[Flaxmeadow]

It's not bashing, its disagreement. But for some reason some teachers can't seem to cope with robust debate

[GreenTulips]

Why are teachers different to other professionals such as residential care workers?

It’s like asking the cleaner why they can’t open longer..

It’s the government policy not teachers who are in charge.

There’s teachers then senior leaders then deputy and heads then it goes up and up...

[TheWristBoundLatexBitch]

Remember I'm not a teacher

[pfrench]

teachers can't seem to cope with robust debate

If 'robust debate' is 6 weeks of people repeatedly using words like lazy and cowards, then I'm a monkey's uncle. The stuff on here, particularly from a couple of specific people has been unpleasant in the extreme.

[W00t]

School staff have been told no PPE, it's unnecessary. Every job you've mentioned MissMarks (bar shop workers and taxi drivers) is allowed to wear full PPE, in fact is expected to and staff are provided with that.
That's not really the same expectation is it?

[pfrench]

Also, some teachers just don't want to debate with fucking idiots who don't have any experience of working in schools. Or with goady twats who post the same things over and over again.

[Flaxmeadow]

If 'robust debate' is 6 weeks of people repeatedly using words like lazy and cowards

Ive been in these debates for weeks and I've never seen anyone say anything like that once, never mind repeatedly

[DippyAvocado]

Less than half the number of classes are going back on Monday. So even if you split those in two you still have enough teachers to deal with them all.

No, because we also have my worker and vulnerable pupils not in the returning year groups. From June 1st, we are increasing provision for those so we will have over 30 pupils in addition to the year groups we are opening for (currently reception and year 1), just in a one form entry primary school. We have 2 teachers and 5 TAs in the vulnerable categories where guidance is still that they should be allowed to work from home.

The key worker/vulnerable children eed to be split into 3 separate bubbles with their own classrooms. The only reason we're able to manage it is because half of the Reception and Year 1 families have decided not to send their DC back.

[MintyMabel]

Nobody has explained where all this extra space for double the number of teachers to take half the number of pupils in two groups is?

[DippyAvocado]

key worker that should say.

[DippyAvocado]

@pfrench

Also, some teachers just don't want to debate with fucking idiots who don't have any experience of working in schools. Or with goady twats who post the same things over and over again.

Yup, and who just ignore any debate you try to provide anyway.

[Flaxmeadow]

On top of this, they aren’t used to risk of this sort.

Yes. I think this is part of the problem. Teachers are very middle class nowadays and far removed from many of the communities they travel into to teach.. Not used to the rough and tumble of everyday experience. As with most of the middle classes, they have become far removed from walking the streets, using public transport and so on. This encourages a siege mentality.

[Flaxmeadow]

Also, some teachers just don't want to debate with fucking idiots who don't have any experience of working in schools. Or with goady twats who post the same things over and over again.

On the other hand. Maybe calling people names and using foul language is not the best way to enter into a debate

[qweryuiop]

@Flaxmeadow

On top of this, they aren’t used to risk of this sort.

Yes. I think this is part of the problem. Teachers are very middle class nowadays and far removed from many of the communities they travel into to teach.. Not used to the rough and tumble of everyday experience. As with most of the middle classes, they have become far removed from walking the streets, using public transport and so on. This encourages a siege mentality.

Err... What?!

So many things in this statement to unpick.

I am particularly intregued by the phrase "siege mentality"

I can assure you that, despite being a teacher and probably middle class, I know how to walk streets and use public transport. Not sure what the hell that has to do with COVID-19, or having a "siege mentality," but there you go.

There is a risk averse culture in schools, that much is true. We have to write risk assessments, get parental approval, wear high vis and take a first aid kit to walk to the postbox at the end of the road. I'm not sure where this has come from - presumably fear of being sued.

[qweryuiop]

@MissMarks

What I mean is that by refusing PPE they are effectively playing the martyr.
Social workers who do home visits are in my area back out again, with PPE. Social workers in children’s homes continue to work- with PPE. Support Workers in homeless hostels with people with complex needs are all at work- with PPE.

If this is happening, it's not at a school level. Dfe guidance says ppe is not needed.

[W00t]

flaxmeadow you do realise that mc go to schools and are educated, just like wc children?
Lots of school staff travel in to the schools they work in because they cannot afford homes in any reasonable proximity.

[Flaxmeadow]

Not sure what the hell that has to do with COVID-19, or having a "siege mentality," but there you go.

Maybe I worded it badly

I'm saying that because teachers are now more middle class, that they dont come from working class communities anymore or at least don't live in them

This isnt just teachers though, with a siege mentality. I think there is a general class divide going on. That some middle class people, not just teachers, are removed from everyday life. Cut off bu their lifestyle and so view the pandemic as something happening over there. Across the tracks

[Flaxmeadow]

...so they fear it. Are nervous about venturing over there, where the epidemic is, or was, raging

[BillBaileysBum]

@NeverTwerkNaked

I think the issue is the position the unions took .
Every other profession I can think of is either carrying on as normal and going out into the world to do their job, or has adapted and is delivering normal service but online.

The stance of"we won't go back to teach in schools but we also won't teach online either" was an astounding one to take and has inevitability damaged the reputation of profession.

This x 1,000,000, plus everything MissMarks has said. It’s the unions who should be ashamed.

[EachDubh]

Flaxmeadow just words like defeatism and bloody minded 🙄 yip, no generalisations or shaming going on at all. 👀
Teachers unions are there to keep their members, teachers safe, art of which is to also keep your kids safe as it stop you suing us. They challenge where they see inappropriate or poor planning.
Issues that have been raised: how can a teacher moniter and clean toilets whilst teaching class on own? How can we fit all kids in school, socially distanced, which is a requirement from government? How can we ensure that parrnts haven't been taking riaks and exposing kids to the viris ans sending them in? How can we ensure increased handwashing with inadequate facilities etc etc. Most queations raised can be sorted but if the queations aren't raised they wont be. Personally, havibg seen the laughable risk assessments and policy from out authority I think we need to be honest to parents , kids and staff. Send kids back in, most of us actually enjoy our jobs, maybe not when were are spat on or assaulted but on the whole we do it because we care. However, we cannot enforcw social distancing, so don't bpame5 us when kids mix. We can't physically force good handwashing, so expect most to give a quick rinse and be done. Regualr deep cleaning 😜 eh, well we will wipe down surfaces etc but there is no money to pay for more cleaners so we will do what we can when we can. Schools are really dirty places, have you ever looked under a class table, please do next time you get a chance. But snot and blood seem ro be common sometimes more suspect things 🤮
So yes lets get kids back, but no lets not say it's easy with the government's plan, it's really hard and requires so much planning. The questions and worries are more oftwn than not aboyt keeping everyone safe, not just the teaching staff.
Also you are all welcome to work my week for my pay and see if you think it's worth it at the end. I love my job and want back and i want all our kids to feel and to be safe or at least to know the truth of the situation.

[7Days]

What on earth are you on about flaxmeadow?

Class? You English are fucked in the head when it comes to class.

There are lots of different jobs that put people in contact with others. Of all levels. You'd hope that they all get the protection they need in their own particular circumstances.
If they dont it's not teachers' fault.

I think its because everyone has had experience of teachers, everyone thinks they're an expert at best, or are channelling that teenage rebellious streak against horrible Mr Jenkins 25 years ago.

Plus the fact that people are afraid for their jobs.

And the fear that other kids will leave theirs behind.

Teachers are entitled to consider their own circumstances. What do you think teachers' unions are for, saving the polar bears???

Completely intertwined in the teachers' personal welfare is the childrens.
Think of the logistics of putting kids into unventilated stuffy classrooms, possibly asymptomatic yet shedding kids, working out the logistics of getting 20 6 year olds, say, to wash their hands before lunch. Eat lunch, wash hands after lunch. Teaching maths say, without physical aides that go from hand to hand. Stop tweens giggling with their heads together. Stop lads jostling each other. Is Johnny allowed to borrow an eraser off Sarah if he makes a mistake in his spellings. Then sending them home to households with God knows what vulnerabilities.
It's a lot of responsibility.

The teachers themselves will probably be alright, and the kids almost certainly will be. It's what the carry in and bring home and how that's the problem.