People are becoming far too relaxed.

[PecorinoPear]

I have been going to the supermarket once a week for food and petrol since this began.

I have noticed that people are becoming too relaxed. Whole families shopping together, no social distancing because they are incorrectly wearing a mask. Children wearing masks, if parents are so worried why don't they leave them at home?

Morrisons aren't bothering with a queue anymore, so there is no limit to how many people are in the store.

[PowerslidePanda]

@Power from your link it says:
It’s a total of 2494 not just people without health conditions.

That's exactly my point - re-read my post. You're saying that only a handful of young, healthy people have died. I'm saying that the definition of "healthy = no underlying conditions" is wrong because those conditions are often minor, as evidenced by the fact that literally thousands of the dead were still healthy enough to be in work.

[Haplap]

TheDailyCarbuncle, can you cite any evidence at all to back up your nonsensical claims? The exponential denial is fascinating! Can I ask you to consider a Google search for 'exponential graphs'. Just a quick image search should help you understand how ridiculous it is to argue that plotting the deaths against time did not draw an exponential graph. I know maths isn't everyones bag, but this really is a case of being able to see the shape of something, that's all. That's why modellers have been same to get accurately calculate that had the lockdown happened just week earlier, they're would have been a quarter of the deaths that we suffered in the UK. The reason being, because they were climbing exponentially.

[Londonwriter]

@BlueRaincoat1 Got to say, I’m with you. Most of my friends and family are behaving reasonably, public polling suggests people are frightened, but - whenever I come to the Mumsnet COVID forum - it’s like they’re on a different planet.

What’s even weirder is all the ‘we need to get on with life - won’t hurt me’ brigade are on the same forum as the ‘40+ days lungs’ threads (!).

Let me explain something... about eight years ago now, when I was 33, I caught a virus. Just a normal, bog standard virus - nothing unusual. I was, at the time, a very healthy, athletic person with a low/normal BMI and no underlying conditions who prided myself on my ability to work and workout harder than everyone else.

That virus triggered some problem with my immune system. The result was very similar to the ‘40+ lungs’ threads... but without the breathing problems.

I have now had this disease for eight years. In so far as it’s ‘treated’, it was treated using off-label rheumatoid arthritis drugs during fertility treatment. I needed fertility treatment because, untreated, my disease not only causes me pain, exhaustion, insomnia, rashes, chronic fevers and poor concentration, but apparently also complete infertility.

My last pregnancy ended at 38 weeks with an emergency c-section because the vascular problems and insulin resistance caused by the chronic over-activity of my innate immune system had compromised my placenta. At the time he was delivered, we estimate my baby had 48 hours to live.

I’m now reading accounts of thousands of healthy people getting similar symptoms to what I have, for months on end, as a result of having COVID-19. If we let 60% of the UK population get that disease, that’s 100s of thousands of young people with immune disorders that aren’t bad enough to kill them - but will nerf their productivity at work and put a heavy burden on the UK welfare system.

But... we should all apparently just wander around infecting each other because, provided we’re young and healthy, it’s going to be okay.

I would say ‘rather you than me’, but I wouldn’t wish my situation on my worst enemy. No, I’m not dead, but sometimes - in the darkest moments - I‘ve wished I was.

Seriously, people, we need to test, track and trace this disease to ensure as few people as possible catch it. And we need to all play our part in acting responsibly to make contact tracing easier and to reduce the spread.

The UK government has been systematically incompetent in rolling out a test, track and trace programme, so we shouldn’t be unlocking the economy until we know it’s definitely working. If there are still too many cases to get contact tracing working, we should keep locked down for a few more weeks (not forever, a few weeks), until the case count is low enough that we can trace every case...

None of this should be hard... South Korea is among the many countries that are managing without lockdowns by using contact tracing to contain the spread.

[EmMac7]

All of these attacks on the Imperial model — when its numbers appear to be correct. Yesterday we were told antibody testing indicates 6.8% of the population have had coronavirus. Roughly 50,000 have died of it according to the ONS. Therefore if 70% of the population eventually gets the virus, 500,000 people will die. Exactly the number Imperial college suggested at the start of this.

The death rate is pretty clear now too thanks to antibody testing, and it’s higher than I’d hoped — around the 1% mark.

[Alex50]

@PowerslidePanda what you said:

As of 11 May, 32,000 people had died and 2,494 of them were young and fit enough to have been employed prior to their death.

The data doesn’t say they were healthy enough to be employed it says of working age 20 to 64 that is a big range with no other data, it’s a bit misleading.

[Haplap]

London writer, thank you for sharing that. It's sounds a really terrible ordeal. I agree with what you've said. I think it is irresponsible to just let this virus rip through the population given we know so little about it's longer term effects.

[YouSetTheTone]

@Londonwriter unfortunately South Korea’s contact tracing would be near impossible to implement here. This article is interesting.
unherd.com/2020/05/coronavirus-doesnt-care-about-politics/

[PowerslidePanda]

The data doesn’t say they were healthy enough to be employed it says of working age 20 to 64 that is a big range with no other data, it’s a bit misleading.

Did you bother to read anything other the headline? It's a data set about the occupations of the people at the time they died. Managers, directors and senior officials - 162 male and 41 female COVID fatalities. Skilled trade occupations - 247 males, 17 females. And so on.

[Barnabyboyo]

This is why people should comply with test and trace. It will get rid of the virus quicker but there are so many people unwilling to comply. It’s madness. If you don’t help with test and trace then you can’t complain

[Alex50]

Sorry I meant no other medical data.

[Ingridla]

I haven't seen this where I live (south London) people are still very much social distancing and queues for shops are metres apart and loooonng

[EarlGreywithLemon]

@Londonwriter, I’m so so sorry. What a terrible thing to go through. And yes, that’s exactly one of the potential issues with Covid. There was an article in the Guardian recently a lot Covid becoming chronic in some people, which I can’t for the life of me find right now.

Honestly, as you say, some people are on a different planet.

[EarlGreywithLemon]

Good summary here on pre-existing conditions

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/millions-with-health-conditions-at-risk-from-covid-19-if-forced-back-to-work

[EarlGreywithLemon]

*about Covid

[PowerslidePanda]

Sorry I meant no other medical data.

Surely that's irrelevant. If they weren't well enough to work, they wouldn't have an occupation.

[Alex50]

But not all the death certificates had an occupation on, the number you gave was of all deaths of working age not that they were working:

Among men, 81.9% of the deaths (or 1,321 deaths) had information on occupation recorded on the death certificate. For women, this figure was 531 deaths (or 60.2%).

[PowerslidePanda]

That's still a total of 1,852. A little less than the number I quoted, but it doesn't change my point: that there are thousands of young, healthy people who've died from this - not just the 40 or so you arrive at by ignoring minor conditions.

[Alex50]

It’s over 600 less than the number you said. I don’t think you read your own link. Not only that they could’ve been on sick leave for cancer or other illnesses, without knowing other details it doesn’t give a clear picture.

[Alex50]

I said just over 200 of 45’s have died which will be in your figures about 40 with lien health issues

[Alex50]

40 no known health issues I meant

[Alex50]

Sorry under 40 years of age, it goes up slightly for 45

[unchienandalusia]

FEAR is the virus

[EarlGreywithLemon]

@unchienandalusia

FEAR is the virus

No, something that can attack your liver, heart, kidneys etc as well as your lungs is the virus. Something that ICU doctors are dreading - that’s the virus.

[MonkeyToesOfDoom]

@unchienandalusia

FEAR is the virus

Being a fuckwit is more dangerous, though it's not as catching as Covid.

[Alex50]

Sorry links missing