“You’ll all have to make up your own minds”...

[littlejalapeno]

... about Dominic Cummings, but in the mean time how about I distract you with some shopping?

I mean you couldn’t make it up, could you? I think irresponsible policy will be the legacy of this current government.

Brilliant at his job you say? I think this has made him look like a shit spin doctor. The story about putting his child in the car to test if his driving was safe - if I was paying him to come up with that bollocks I'd want my money back.

“ I am and always have been a Tory supporter.
This fucking muppet show thou, for the first time in 30 years I don't think I'll ever vote again.”

If it’s any comfort, Bullet, I think this is a Conservative Government in name only.

Most advisors keep to the background, don’t court public opinion by getting their wives to write bullshit syrupy stories about them.
Most advisors don’t make controversial comments about the general public which are blatantly contemptuous of voters?

Opening the shops is what they want, Cummings is a distraction from that. Not vice versa. They're desperate to get the economy back up and running. Maybe they're even deliberately trying to hide the news about shops behind Cummings, as with schools it's going to be unpopular with many.

If it’s any comfort, Bullet, I think this is a Conservative Government in name only.

I agree. I am starting to think that Johnson won't be around too much longer owing to a backbench rebellion, but I accept that might be wishful thinking.

Opening the shops is what they want, Cummings is a distraction from that. Not vice versa. They're desperate to get the economy back up and running. Maybe they're even deliberately trying to hide the news about shops behind Cummings, as with schools it's going to be unpopular with many.

Hm. I wonder how they'll distract from the layoffs as the furlough scheme is phased down? Maybe Johnson will 'get caught' having an affair with Priti.

The Daily Fail readers are happy that Doris and DC have explained how important they are and that the plebs now need to start shopping to "get the country moving" (which sounds very much like Get Brexit done) and like good little plebs they have moved on.

Many civil servants have a huge amount of power. That’s the way it works.

Very true. But if a civil servant had done this, there would be an investigation. They'd be up on disciplinary investigation, possibly gross misconduct. Maybe not sacked, certainly removed from their post.

The difference is that civil servants and MPs are held to account. "Advisers" are not. Apart from all the treasury ones who Boris sacked a few months ago because he didn't like them of course.

We have every right to be angry about how much power is wielded by those in the shadows, the fact that they've always existed doesn't change that.

Civil servants - even lowly ones- have to be careful what they say and do in public or they can be disciplined or sacked for bringing gov into disrepute.

He could have done a normal politician fake scripted apology (there is probably a template for them) "I made an error of judgement, I regret actions etc" but instead we get all the BS excuses.

Then the most galling thing us we are treated as if we were too stupid to understand the first 2 word slogan (stay home) that was told to us by anyone and everyone in power for days and weeks on end.

These organisations are ran by very powerful people at the top. That’s how it works. They advise the government minister who is the figure head but they are in charge.

That's bullshit. Are you really trying to tell us that it was the civil service that advised Gove to introduce his ridiculous reforms to the education system. My older child had to put up with a school that became an academy and therefore had very little influence by the LA. A useless head was brought in by the governors who then had to defend their choice by not criticising him. He went on to run other schools within the group as executive head. He was useless running them too. We couldn't appeal to the LA because it was an academy school. We couldn't appeal to the governors because they blindly supported him. Meanwhile it went from an outstanding school to a needs improvement within a couple of years.

Then he had hastily put together exams because Gove rushed through the new GCSE exam format. Teachers were trying to catch up with the syllabus while teaching the exams. They left in their droves and we had a succession of supply teachers. There's very little evidence, if any, of improvements and it must have cost a lot of money to introduce reforms. Meanwhile people have made money out of running these academies.

Gove not the civil service pushed this through. The civil service are not ideologues or blanket reformers.

If it were true that civil service not ministers ran the show they'd be no difference between Tory and Labour governments.

It was clearly Theresa May not civil servants that brought the hostile environment policy that led to Windrush.

Thatcher pushed through the Poll Tax debacle against civil service advice because it was her own personal crusade.

There are countless examples of politicians pushing through doctrinaire policy against civil service advice.

Even when dickhead Cummings read word for word the policy it didn't state anything about driving you child 270 miles when you are potentially displaying signs of covid.

Also, 1 thing that hasn't been picked up on by the media or police.....he sat down for 15 minute with his wife and son in the middle of the strictest partnof lockdown when people were clearly told they were allowed to walk but not sit down. Hypocrite! At the least he should be fined for that!

It's insulting. For everything I'm not getting to do now, I can only assume DC and the like are doing it as they seem to have special insight into the rules which means it doesn't apply to them. Not seeing my family for months has been hard. For a lot of people this will have been a hellish few months. Can't believe the arrogance.

I also am a traditional conservative voter but not since Brexit and the way things are going never again. It means nothing anymore does it?
Dominic Cummings’ non-apology yesterday made my blood boil and to think he was also the ‘mastermind behind the Brexit campaign’ makes me doubly furious.
They just lie and spin to manipulate the public! They must genuinely think the British public are so easily manipulated (and to be fair 50% were who fell hook line and sinker for the line that we’d be better off out of the EU).
To think he sits at his desk and comes up with all that Bullshit to feed us in the knowledge that many many will fall for it is sickening.
I know politicians have always had advisors but this seems now to be on another level.
One of the ways they spun Brexit was on immigration policy. I just hope they and the public now realise that we need immigrants! Who’s going to pick your strawberries?
Who’s going to keep the NHS and care homes going?
Did anyone see that Syrian doctor caring for Covid patients on the news yesterday? I cried at the thought that those amazing people might not be able to come here soon.

I feel so angry - women have had to have pregnancy scans without their partners there, some children will be permanently behind in their education, women locked in with people abusing them. But DC used his interpretation of the rules to break them.

I'm finding lockdown really hard and not getting to go away over the summer will be even more bitter as I can only assume DC will be due to his special circumstances which are really only the situation we have all been in.

I have posted on earlier threads (before the Cummings story broke) about personal interpretation of the guidance, and think his defence largely worked. In my work we often give "guidance" which is deliberately vague in order to a) avoid writing rules for all eventualities which would be impossibly long and probably do more harm than good, and b) avoid removing personal responsibility from the actions of the individual. So I have sympathy for the personal interpretation part of his argument.

But Cummings orchestrated the mind-numbing drum-beat of Stay Home, Save the NHS, Save Lives'. That was all his doing.

So, I have no mercy. It's all a stupid distraction from what really matters, which is saving the country from this godforsaken mess, but people are right to be angry.

And Say what you want about Cummings the truth is even his detractors say he’s brilliant at his job. If that is the best plan a brilliant strategist can come up with e.g. eyes playing up then take child for a 60 minute drive to see if it is safe to drive, all I can say is their idea of brilliant strategist is not the same as most peoples.

Not ok considering he knew the suffering that the lockdown was causing people. Sick single parents sticking to the rules, people who have taken their own lives, children who are suffering anxiety or extreme frustration about being stuck at home, women locked in with abusive men. Most parents I know are miserable - looking after (understandably) grumpy children all day and then doing their work after bedtime which means they are working until 1am or later.

@MeganBacon if he had exhausted all other options, and felt backed in to a corner where he had to go against guidelines, then I might agree with you. But he hadn't. He had other childcare options more locally, he admitted that he didn't consider any other options, and it wasn't even clear that he would need childcare (in actual fact, he didn't). Then the 60 mile round trip to 'test his eyesight' - just absolute arrogant rubbish.

I agree it wasn't perfect. But SPADs are never elected. People who don't like Boris himself or his choice of SPAD will be able to vote against him in the next election. In the meantime this has become a mind numbingly, cringeworthy story that has shown social media (for it's promotion of incorrect facts e.g. the autism question) and actual media (for the fiasco yesterday) in a very bad light and there is a lot of work to do to rebuild the economy which is the real focus. I think enough is enough and it needs to stop now.

MeganBacon

You are parroting exactly the kind that Tory MPs gave out this morning?

The complete bucket of lies spouted by Cummings yesterday is an insult to the entire population who have supported immensely over lockdown.
Dominic ran up to Durham to slaver over the data trove he had just prized off a deliriously ILL Boris for his sisters company which is producing the Covid app IN MY OPINION

MeganBacon

So are you ok with Cummings retroactively doctoring his social media to put references to Covid in?

Dominic ran up to Durham to slaver over the data trove he had just prized off a deliriously ILL Boris for his sisters company which is producing the Covid app IN MY OPINION
And that is the sort of rumour mongering that needs to stop. No credibility whatsoever, yet you complain about DC!
So are you ok with Cummings retroactively doctoring his social media to put references to Covid in?
See above. Not really, if it happened, but I would still say we need to move on because this is mind numbingly boring now and there is actual, real work to be done.

MeganBacon
say we need to move on because this is mind numbingly boring now

Parroting the govt line exactly.

I will USE MY JUDGEMENT on that and not be told what to do by a Tory Troll thanks.