My dad won't get a ventilator, will he?

[ivegotdreadfulpmttoday]

My Dad has tested positive for covid19. He is in his 90s, with dementia, in a care home. If he needs it, he won't be put on a ventilator, will he?

The DNACPR should have been discussed with you, as LPA. It does remain a clinical decision though.
That doesn’t mean no treatment if he becomes unwell; it means no resuscitation attempts if his heart stops or he stops breathing. Nothing more or less than that. It doesn’t negate a transfer to hospital but a decision would have to be made when he was unwell. A DNACPR doesn’t, for example mean no oxygen or antibiotics.

I think you need a conversation with the registered manager about their understanding of what the DNACPR means and what the intended acids if he becomes unwell.

I'm sorry for your situation, and hope he recovers.

Unfortunately, if your dad's heart stops, then he will have died, and no CPR can bring him back, that's what DNACPR means. As CPR is aerosol generating, it's restricted to those where it will work even more so than normal, so as not to risk everyone else.

The same applies to if his lungs completely fail, no ventilator can bring him back to life.

Unfortunately, eventually, people who have lived a long life, can't fight off infections, and their lungs struggle, they tire, and their hearts stop, and nothing can be done to stop that natural process. This may not be your dad's time yet, but when it is his time, CPR and a ventilator would cause suffering, and not change the outcome.

Being on a ventilator is dreadfully invasive even for a younger person who has all their mental faculties. It would be terribly traumatic for an older person with severe dementia. As many posters have pointed out its not a magic cure. Older people have survived and recovered without this intervention.

Please do not feel guilty about him being in a care home. I had to find a nursing home place for my OH last September as I could not longer organise any care of a sufficient level to keep him safe. He subsequently died in the nursing home in February; but I do have to say that the end-of-life care he received was loving and respectful. So, if your father does end his life in the his care home, I know that staff are very conscious of the fact that loved-ones cannot be there - but everything I have heard and experienced tells me that the staff work so hard to counter-balance that and provide loving care.

Sometimes a care home or nursing home is necessary to make sure that care is efficient and professional - do not ever feel bad about your decision. Stay strong.

So sorry about your dad, OP.

Even CPAP which is assisted breathing via a large fitted face mask wouldn't be suitable as it's quite hard to tolerate and it wouldn't work or be fair on someone with dementia. Most patients only need oxygen.

My DM was in hospital with suspected sepsis in April and was diagnosed with Covid19 while she was there. She’s 85 and also in a care home, she did require oxygen and when she was discharged she was still very poorly but the staff at the care home were fantastic and she’s made a full recovery. I understand your worries about him being alone as that was my biggest fear, but there is hope as not everyone dies from it, even if they are elderly. It’s a very difficult position to be in though at the moment for anyone who can’t be with their loved ones when they are ill.

My friend's Dad with dementia in a care home and tested positive is still here. Hope your Dad is the same.

I found this interview with Kathryn Mannix (palliative care expert) extremely comforting and I think you might do too OP.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p088dqcj
From about 1 minute to 6:30 minutes is the relevant bit.

She explains what it's like to die from coronavirus and how the person will be gradually unable to stay awake and slip into unconsciousness. She explains it much better than I can so I'd recommend a listen.

My husband is in his 60’s. His GP has told him that he wouldn’t be ventilated if he contracts CV. They also asked him to agree to a DNACPR being put on his medical records. We are both in lockdown, to try to ensure he doesn’t catch it. We both know that, due to his underlying health conditions, interventions like ventilation would be pointless. So sorry op. 💐

Yes I don't think I would consent to go on a ventilator. We had a local man in Watford, Indian, whose hospital would not put him on one - he was old and sick and they let him come home to die. His son stuck by his bed side day and night and kept watching him and they had some kind of large device already at home as his health issues were to do with breathing so the son used it to monitor him constantly, gave him plenty of fluids etc. The son saved his life and he was at home with his family. Much nicer. Even much nicer to die at home (as both my parents did long before CV19)