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Original poster

My dad won't get a ventilator, will he?

86 replies

ivegotdreadfulpmttoday · 18/05/2020 19:13

My Dad has tested positive for covid19. He is in his 90s, with dementia, in a care home. If he needs it, he won't be put on a ventilator, will he?

OP posts:
Natsku · 18/05/2020 20:36

I'm so sorry OP, I hope he pulls through. I would ask the care home what they can do to make sure he is comfortable, that is the most important thing I think as a ventilator is most likely to be denied, and it wouldn't be good anyway, its very brutal.

shinynewapple2020 · 18/05/2020 20:37

@ivegotdreadfulpmttoday. If your dad does become really poorly and it looks like he won't pull through it may be worth speaking to the care home to see if they will let you visit him to say goodbye. The information we had from my mum's home says that although they don't allow visiting at the moment they will make exceptions for illness and end of life. Obviously you would need to consider any risks to yourself and your family and get yourself protected with PPE but it would be worth asking .

Hopefully it won't come to this and he will pull through. It sounds as if he's normally quite strong and physically healthy so there is still a fairly good chance.

custodiandiscount · 18/05/2020 20:39

A story to give you a little hope
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-52200015

When my dad was very ill though, he didn't want any more treatment as he wanted to keep his dignity. It was very important to him. Invasive treatment was too much for him, he just wasn't strong enough.

I hope your dad comes through it and that you're OK as well.

JinglingHellsBells · 18/05/2020 20:40

OP I know of someone with terminal cancer, in their 80s, who caught Covid and has pulled through. It's not a 'given' your dad will die from it.

Age is not the factor for using or not using a ventilator. There is no shortage of ventilators now.

It's a medical decision on what is best for him, regardless of age.

Has he got an end of life care plan and do you have Power of Attorney? If so, you are the one who can say what you think is best for him.

I hope he's okay.

CherryPavlova · 18/05/2020 20:41

Someone should have had a conversation with your father and your family long before Coronavirus reared it’s head. There should be agreement about the ceiling of care and when it is or isn’t appropriate to transfer. Without advance directive or a ReSPECT form, it is likely he would be transferred.
DNACPR only related to when his heart stops or he stops breathing. It doesn’t relate to any other treatment. People are transferred from care homes to hospitals.
It is unlikely that he’d be ventilated because it would probably be futile and unkind to put him through that, when a natural death might mean he could say goodbye.
Ask the care home what their understanding is. Does he have an LPA? They should be involved in any decisions. It’s not for a care home to decide whether or not to transfer. It has to be an individual decision based on his needs and condition unless there is an approved Advanced Care Plan.
Ninety year olds are at higher risk but even then, death is not the most likely outcome. You will have to start preparing to say goodbye because he’s ninety and each day brings his journey’s end closer.

Inthepurplerain · 18/05/2020 20:44

Lots of people prefer to die alone OP and slip away peacefully when there’s nobody in the room.

Please don’t feel guilty for him passing away alone, it’s not something he will ever be able to feel sad about, so don’t let it be something that bothers you either.

I hope he pulls through this!

Weallhavevalidopinions · 18/05/2020 20:48

I'm sorry.

Don't lose hope though since there are stories of some older people who have survived.

Sending thoughts and best wishes to you x

SusieOwl4 · 18/05/2020 20:48

I am really sorry for your situation and understand how you feel about him going into a care home .

I had no choice with my aunt and uncle as their needs were extremely complicated and needed special care .

But each case is different and you may come to the point of thinking is it best that they get some kind of hospital care on their own or stay with the carers they know. It is the most horrible decision .

Is your DF capable of making that choice himself ? Is he able to talk to you on the phone at the moment ?

Rinsefirst · 18/05/2020 20:50

Know both a 93 and 94 who are better now after positive tests. Fingers crossed for him.

Doryhunky · 18/05/2020 20:50

I came on to post what a pp posted about visits being allowed in these circumstances. Please do press the care home to allow this.

TheStuffedPenguin · 18/05/2020 20:52

@ivegotdreadfulpmttoday Is there a DNR order made ?

herethereandeverywhere · 18/05/2020 20:54

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-52375193

As others have stated, this does not have to mean the worst. I've linked to another story of a man in his 90s recovering from COVID.

I wish you the best Flowers

HesterShaw1 · 18/05/2020 20:55

I'm really sorry OP Flowers

It's not a given he will die. But a ventilator would be really horrible and traumatic for him.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 18/05/2020 20:55

Just hope if he succumbs it is painlessly and in his sleep. Flowers for you both.

GrowThroughWhatYouGoThrough · 18/05/2020 20:57

I work In hospital is he showing symptoms? Just because he has covid and his doesn't mean he will need a ventilator a lot of people get mild/no symptoms

feellikeanalien · 18/05/2020 20:58

So sorry OP. My Dad who in is his 90s is in hospital with advanced rectal cancer, memory problems and other underlying issues. The worst part is not being able to visit.

What has kept us all going is being able to call him and face time him when he's up to it. The staff have been great and when they thought they were losing him a few days ago they allowed my sister in to see him.

It is awful but some older people who have had the virus have pulled through. I read about an elderly lady who was over 100 and not only survived the virus but had also survived Spanish flu.

All you can do is take it a day at a time and speak to the care home staff. All the staff where Dad is have been really understanding.

I know how hard it is and wish you all the best.

TheLashKingOfScotland · 18/05/2020 21:00

I'm so sorry OP. Flowers
Have you asked the care home what their procedure is for visits? I was reading an article at the weekend where some care homes were allowing family visits when an elderly resident had Covid because they considered it essential for both the family and the relative, that they were able to spend some quality time together.

Saladmakesmesad · 18/05/2020 21:01

What a horrible time for you. You must be so anxious. I hope it’s a mild case. Flowers

Bluntness100 · 18/05/2020 21:02

Op, try to remember even at his age he has a 90 percent chance of survival. If the only underlying condition he has is dementia he has a very strong chance of survival.

I hope he makes a full recovery. 💐

P999 · 18/05/2020 21:13

Hi OP. I'm so sorry, this is really tough. Can you speak to the doctor to discuss his ongoing care? And how they will manage his symptoms and what they can do if he deteriorates? This should include the sort of palliative care he will get. You can also provide some input into things that might help. Playing music that he especially loves? or messages from you? Giving them an idea of the sorts of things that are important for him and you Flowers

Genevieva · 18/05/2020 21:14

If he isn't put on one it is because a ventilator would kill him. There is no shortage of ventilators. They put a lot of pressure on the lungs. You need to be strong to be able to cope with them. If he was my Dad, I would probably bring him home, make sure he gets paracetamol for fever, antibiotics for secondary infections, steroids if he needs them and massage his back as much as possible, but I realise that dementia is a difficult disease and that may not be practical.

Genevieva · 18/05/2020 21:16

Everything Cherry Pavlova has said is very informed and sensible. A Covid diagnosis should not mean automatic transfer to hospital.

Original poster
ivegotdreadfulpmttoday · 18/05/2020 21:22

Thank you for all your replies. So sorry @iwantmyownicecreamvan for your loss. That's so sad.

There is a DNR in place and I have a LPA . The DNR was put in place when he entered the care home when we were able to visit whenever we liked and he could therefore have visitors every day.

We have managed to video call a few times but the staff are very stretched so this has been limited. Phone calls confuse him and distress him so don't help. I like the idea of sending a video so he maybe the staff can play that to him. I have sent lots of emails to be read to him and photos.

Thank you all for your kindness.

OP posts:
1Wildheartsease · 18/05/2020 21:23

Covid seems to be quite random in taking its victims. He might get through this.

It is awful to think of him alone... but he won't be. The staff will look after him- they really do care. Half the ward died (not of covid 19) in the first weekend my husband was in intensive-care. The staff there clearly found the losses hard but were caring and deeply respectful of every patient. They were especially attentive to those who had no-one else present at the end.

Could you send him a recording? Staff told me that hearing is often the very last thing to go (and when my husband made a miraculous recovery he actually remembered things we had played to him while he was in a deep coma. We played him recordings of the children having breakfast and ordinary chat - just normal life.).

Don't blame yourself for how things have turned out. You can only make the best decision for the time you are in.

lljkk · 18/05/2020 21:34

I seem to recall that 50% of patients survive critical care but only 33% survive being put on a ventilator. Ventilator is kind of a last prayer option, mostly doesn't work.

I also have the vague impression that at least 30% of people age 90+ survive covid. Outcome is not definite.

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