Holiday's while on Furlough

[Cheekychicken93]

Just want to check that this is fair and allowed and if so who I can talk to? I work for a small company 5 of us in total.

I have been put on furlough. Currently I am receiving full pay (boss paying the other 20%) but I have been told for every 3 weeks I am off I need to take another week off as holiday.

I wanted to be able to go away after all of this but I won't have any holiday left by the end.

Is he able to make me take my holiday?
If not does anyone know if there's any route I can go as he does not take well if I try and question something.

You have to look at the bigger picture.

I'm pretty sure they can make you take it but even if not they are obviously doing that as a way to save money and in turn save the business and your job.

My partners work are doing something similar and although it's not what we would have chosen we'd rather do this and the company not go bust.

Unless there’s something in your contract to the contrary they can do it. Most forms using furlough are putting some sort of measures in place for taking holiday either during furlough or directly after it to avoid everyone having lots of holiday to take at once when they all return to work.

@WriteAndErase I feel better knowing it's not just our company. He had us working while on furlough until he was told he couldn't so I just wanted to double check it wasn't just him doing this!

Your employer can dictate when your leave is taken.
Employees accrue leave whilst on furlough and they are probably trying to avoid you having loads of leave to use up when things return to some kind of 'normal'.

It will cost your employer more when you take a holiday week I think, as I'd think they (employer) will be paying your wages that week (which will be full pay) as opposed to the Govt paying 80% and employer topping it up to 100% on a furlough week.

My employer told us all of our holidays during furlough are cancelled so your situation feels confusing!

www.gov.uk/guidance/holiday-entitlement-and-pay-during-coronavirus-covid-19

When furlough was first announced they said you accrued holiday and couldn’t be on holiday and furlough. Then the rules changed and they said you could take holiday do for example over the bank holidays furloughed staff wouldn’t necessarily get a day in lieu.

Then employers realised that they might be in the situation where when things finally get back to normal andcwork starts to come in they will have a load of staff with a lot of holiday to take so several started saying that all employees must take x amount between now and September for example.

He can make you take annual leave, but during that period/week, HE will have to pay your full salary - 100%

This is why so few employers are doing this. You cannot be paid furlough money whilst on annual leave - employer has to pay it in full.

My company has said staff can't cancel holidays during furlough. So any booked prior to this have to be taken during furlough.

@covetingthepreciousthings You need to make sure they know they must pay you themselves at 100% and not claim furlough for you whilst you are on AL.

This detail seems to have been missed by lots of employers!

@bluebeck where have you got this information from please. Yes, employers have to pay you 100% while on AL, but they can claim 80% back from the HMRC through the furlough scheme. It’s understandable that companies may want you to use a proportion of holiday whilst on furlough as they don’t want people coming back with a huge amount of holiday accrued, but equally if you can’t go away or your partner is working, you’d not want to take much. It’s also advantageous for a company to make employees take the holiday if the HMRC are going to pay 80% of this.

The government are having to write these rules as they go along, so I reckon the holiday element might have to be paid back in the future, but who knows.

@bluebeck I might not be correct in what I have said, but was told this by a friend who works in a payroll department. If you are correct in what you have said, either she’s wrong or I’ve misinterpreted our conversation and got the wrong end of the stick when she told me.

Husband is wfh but his workmates who can’t are on furlough.

They have to take all hols as planned to protect mental health. So no cancelling because you can’t go away (you need the rest) and no forcing hols (you need to spread them out).

Asking you to take them pro rata might be fair but not one every three weeks. You get five out of 52 weeks. One every ten weeks is healthy.

Husbands workmates are only getting 80% though. They don’t have to top up to 100

I’m not on furlough but have been taking annual leave a few days a week to make it easier to deal with childcare/home school (we are both wfh ft). Yes it sucks as would otherwise not be taking it now and would use it for holidays-holidays but these aren’t normal circumstances and I doubt we’ll get away this year anyway (for financial reasons too, not just because travel will be different).

Wait now, you aren't working at all, yet you think you should get a holiday at the end. From WHAT??? A holiday is a break from work, but you aren't working. Your employer is trying to ensure their business survives, they're working at least as far as sorting out your pay, but the thanks you plan to give them is asking for even more of their money for nothing. Some people in this world struggle for food, for their homes, for work - and the hill you choose to die on is getting a holiday from doing nothing. Do you see really not think that's pathetic and lazy?

If you asked your employer now if you can have a few days of unpaid leave set aside for Christmas as you're wanting to visit family after all this but will have used up all your leave, they might be amenable. If you just want to be paid to lie about relaxing a bit more, then ask away, but expect to find yourself first in the redundancy queue.

Yes Otherwise when furlough is finished there will not be staff available to revive and run the business. Dh has to take most of his leave before end September, or he would have about a month to take before end of the year which is not manageable.

This is why so few employers are doing this. You cannot be paid furlough money whilst on annual leave - employer has to pay it in full

This is not correct. The employer must top up the furlough amount to the "usual" wage for employees on leave. And yes, the employer can insist on employees taking leave during furlough as long as they provide the correct notice (twice as much as the actual leave, eg two weeks' notice for one week's leave)

The government has relaxed the working time regulations so employees have an extra two years to take their entitlement. However, with redundancies looming for many companies, employers won't want to be accruing a large holiday pay liability that will drain cash.

@OllyBJolly yes, I’ve looked at the latest info on the gov site published on 13th May and wondered why bluebeck said different. I don’t often comment and would always advice anyone to read the latest gov info, but she seemed so certain in the info she had.

@MRex it was a question to check this was ok.