Murder or manslaughter?

[FOF44]

I'm just so appalled by this www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/12/uk-rail-worker-dies-coronavirus-spat-belly-mujinga

I really hope the person who did it is caught and charged with something serious.

Somebody more knowledgeable may clarify this but I understood if you commit GBH that ends in a death, then that is murder. I absolutely think he should be charged with something for causing her death.

I think it should be murder however his defence will be he didn’t mean to kill her.

Plus they will have to prove she 100% caught the virus from him and not on her way to work that day, or from another colleague for example.

Attempted murder perhaps? It's made me so angry that some poor soul just doing their job can have this happen to them.

Same as the sentence for intentionally infecting someone with HIV imo (don't know what that is though).

Truly awful.

Absolutely no way to pin a murder/manslaughter charge on this because it's impossible to prove causality and culpability.

Might as well charge every single person who has set foot anywhere near London because she could have just as easily caught Covid from any of them, you'll never prove it or prove otherwise.

Spitting on someone is considered assault isn't it? Given the rest of the story why not attempted murder?

factual causation , actus reus bit tricky ?

I don't see how you can argue 'attempted murder' when the actual act is spitting on someone. Spitting in itself isn't going to 'murder' anyone, and even if you want to go down the route of arguing that the assailant did so knowing they were infected with a communicable disease, you then run into the problem that said disease is only fatal in a tiny, tiny proportion of cases. There's simply no way to prove 'intent to murder'. This is before you even get to the biggest problem, the simple fact it's impossible to prove she was infected by the assailant. Everything else is moot really.

Attempted murder wouldn't make sense as she did die, and specifically requires an intent to kill.

But if you intend to cause someone serious harm and they die you can be charged with murder.

The difficulty with that is that the mens rea of intending serious harm would need to be proved, as well as the causation.

Sadly I felt like assault is likely to be the highest likely charge.

A very sad incident indeed. I agree with the pp who said it should be treated the same as if trying to infect someone with HIV.

Given her underlying heath condition, why wasn't she shielding? That's what I want to know.

Firstly they would have to prove it happened and that she definitely caught it from them.

The news said she deleveloped symptoms a couple of days later, so she could have infact already caught it when this happened.

Its disgusting and he sold be charged with assault at least.

The colleague she was next to also caught it, that would help perhaps?

Is there anything else they could do him for? It's appalling.

She may not have caught it from him, and if she did, how could that be proved?

It is utterly disgusting and I feel so sorry for her family

Aside from the intent or potential criminal charges, there's no current proof he had COVID or even believed he did. On 22nd March I'd be very surprised if he'd been tested.

It's not uncommon unfortunately that some people spit on or threaten workers (including retail) with e.g dirty needles or biting and claim they have an infectious disease. It doesn't mean they have.

Awful though.

The colleague she was next to also caught it, that would help perhaps?

But if she had it previous to the incident, the factcthe her colleague who was also stood next to her, getting it, doesnt prove he gave her.

The colleague could have caught it or given it to this lady

Have they got the person who did this? He Should be charged with something. Vile excuse for a person.

Murder and attempted murder.
And people of BAME origin need to be protected better, though I appreciate the increased risks might not have been known then.
Rest in peace Belly Mujinga, and wishing a full recovery to her colleague.

It's a terrible case, and utterly disgusting behaviour. But agree with pp that there is no way this can be charged as murder. GBH at the most.

I'd like to see any form of spitting in public treated as a serious offence. Nasty habit even without Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-52631711

'Assault' of two police officers and a four month jail sentence.

This is really upsetting 😔