My cynical view on why they are making sure they open primary schools ASAP

[DebbieFiderer]

It's simple really - if they get primary school pupils back before the end of the summer term then it is business as usual in terms of childcare and they don't have to keep schools open over the summer holidays for keyworker children. Anyone else think I am right, or am I being overly cynical and they genuinely think it's the right thing to do for the kids?

To be fair to the parents. Although it is their choice many with either be in vulnerable category or their children will. And the guidance says those kids should be in school!! Yet the parent who is vulnerable should try to wfh!
And even if not it is hardly unreasonable for parents to be concerned when gov have made so many mistakes and may well be planning another wave.. As they are going against what most other countries incl all other uk ones are doing... Only about 2 other countries are doing the same

@FrippEnos
I will bold whatever I like. You have falsely accused me of inaccuracies. What is inaccurate about stating lockdown has to end? What is inaccurate about the fact primary school kids are the least affected by this virus? If kids don't go to school, their parents can't go to work. There is no vaccine. There may never be one. What is the alternative? Lockdown is economically, practically, politically unsustainable Fact.

The big problem with this "immunity" concept, however, is that they don't yet know if catching and recovering from C19 DOES confer any immunity.

Example: a close friend's daughter is a nurse. Yesterday her antibody test came back as positive - they'd suspected she (and her husband and 2 kids) had contracted the virus in March and were laid up for several weeks.

She is not to act as if immune, but to continue assuming she is open to catching it again - this her instruction from the NHS.

From The Times:

the world may never develop a vaccine against Covid-19, the government’s chief scientific adviser said last night as he revealed estimates suggesting that at least 4 per cent of the population had already had the virus. Sir Patrick Vallance said that while he was encouraged by vaccine trials under way in Oxford and London one could never guarantee success.However, he emphasised that even without a vaccine he was hopeful that treatments would emerge to lessen the severity of the illness and reduce the number of people dying of it

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/no-guarantee-we-will-get-a-coronavirus-vaccine-says-sir-patrick-vallance-z9h3bdfxc

And they can't grasp that no country can bankroll its citizens to stay at home for the next X months or years until a vaccine is developed.

People need to return to work which means primary school children, the demographic least affected by the virus need to return to school.

I agree that the economy & health are intrinsically linked.

@bovaryx Is their evidence that childcare for young dc is the reason people are furloughed? Will the industries affected the most by furloughing be open in June without constraints?

If there is evidence that childcare is the reason people are not working & are furloughed then I'm not sure how smaller classes, potential p/t options, not all years back, staggered drop offs, lack of wraparound care will help the economy.
Plus parents have the choice which means a lot won't chose it & teachers will likely have to still deliver remote learning.

I would argue in London at least a huge barrier to getting "people back to work" & getting people out & spending money is public transport.

I was thinking something similar last night. Usually working parents use holiday club/grandparents for childcare over the holidays.

Presumably those options will both be unavailable but by getting kids back to school the government can wash their hands of the problem and put the onus on individual families to sort something out.

I would argue in London at least a huge barrier to getting "people back to work" & getting people out & spending money is public transport

I agree. You have the nexus of London's mayor and transport unions. Whether this nexus proves a help or a hindrance to frazzled commuters? If I fancied a punt, I know where I would place my bet. One thing is for sure. The Government's talk of cycling or walking to work is going to be a tough sell to those in the zone hinterlands who currently do neither....

Couldn't agree with you more spoketoosoon

BovaryX

You can indeed bold what you like.

As for inaccuracies. You have put that children are least likely to get this virus, that is not a fact. What is a "fact" is they do not generally get as ill and are often asymptomatic,
Unless there is a proper testing system set up. We may never know.

As for the lockdown been unsustainable, I agree with you.

As for the vaccine, who knows?

@TW2013

While I can see where you’re coming from, this is an awful idea! You’d be trying to reduce inequality by creating more inequality, as well as a divide within a class.

One child is not entitled to less education than another simply because they have supportive parents. A gap will always exist between different types of families. Schools cannot actively discriminate against families that do well.

@bovaryx and my other points?

@FrippEnos
.Lockdown has to end. Primary school children are least affected by the virus, the idea that evil Tories are engineering the deaths of Dickensian urchins on a whim is laughable. But hey. You knock yourself out with your nit picking and your newly discovered enthusiasm for bold.

BovaryX

Lockdown has to end

I agreed with this.

You posted least likely to get Covid. not least affected by, so a change there.

the idea that evil Tories are engineering the deaths of Dickensian urchins on a whim is laughable.

Given that I have posted that children are mainly asymptomatic you seem to be making stuff up again.

As for nit picking, that is laughable.

But I am going to leave you to it.

@foggybits

If you are asked will people resume their spending habits and patronize the businesses they visited daily prior to the pandemic? I think it's unlikely. Watching the UK from a distance, the government is teetering between fear of the virus and its impact on the crumbling NHS and fear that the economy is on the precipice of an abyss. It is an unenviable role. I predict serious ructions ahead.

No my points about the relation between childcare & furloughing....

In case you missed it

And they can't grasp that no country can bankroll its citizens to stay at home for the next X months or years until a vaccine is developed.
People need to return to work which means primary school children, the demographic least affected by the virus need to return to school.

I agree that the economy & health are intrinsically linked.

@bovaryx Is their evidence that childcare for young dc is the reason people are furloughed? Will the industries affected the most by furloughing be open in June without constraints?

If there is evidence that childcare is the reason people are not working & are furloughed then I'm not sure how smaller classes, potential p/t options, not all years back, staggered drop offs, lack of wraparound care will help the economy.
Plus parents have the choice which means a lot won't chose it & teachers will likely have to still deliver remote learning.

Maybe though, there have been less cases of Children affected because schools and childcare are only open to a select few and when things re schools and childcare open up to more children these numbers of affected children will go up?

Or maybe there will be minimal uptake anyway, due to concerns about cannon fodder experimentation and the guidance will need to change again?

I just think the logistics are difficult (on running a school with social distancing) and they want staff to try out ideas and strategies now with a couple of classes. A phased return now is better than everyone due back together in August/September with no testing of procedures.

I think this will be the safest time to teach as there are very low levels circulating in the community. There will probably be much more risk in September when we are further past the end of full lockdown.

If you can’t tech now with limited numbers then when?

I would argue in London at least a huge barrier to getting "people back to work" & getting people out & spending money is public transport

Trouble with that is the demographics largely driving London buses, Tubes and Trains. Late middleaged men, BAME, prone to having Diabetes and to be overweight.

Ah Classic. All the parents on here who get upset when they are lumped together are now lumping all school staff together - all school staff are refusing to go back to work, making crazy demands and blocking every solution while every other key worker is happily doing their job fearlessly.

I’ve said it so many times. If you don’t think your teacher is working, take it up with your school. My teacher colleagues are not doing live lessons due to our own safeguarding issues we have to work with, however they are making multiple videos a day and not just sending website links. My class teacher, daily:
Sends a maths video (3 versions differentiated for different abilities) with practical demonstration and task to do.
A literacy video (again 3 different versions for differentiation) - practical and a task
Phonic video - new sounds and handwriting task
A topic video - Again demonstrating and talking about something and setting a challenge which can be presented in different ways.

She also sends out an e reading book three times a week (individualised for each child). Whilst planning all this she is feeding back everything that comes in, marking and assessing returned work, entering the data, writing reports, planning and videoing for the next week ahead, planning for the next year, she’s now having to think about transitioning back to the classroom so changing the summer term plan AGAIN because they’ve all done different levels. Oh and of course she is on the rota to go in for key worker children, so she’s already exposing herself without complaint. As we are private all support staff (TAs, HLTAs, catering etc) are furloughed.

If I was not a decent person, I would put all parents into the category of the few who have not once logged into the online platform (and half of these have SAHM) and have not been in contact with the teacher at all, or have not submitted a single piece of work. I could say teachers are doing all this for nothing because parents can’t be bothered. But I won’t, because it’s not true at all and I know that.
So stop putting all teachers into the same flipping box as always.

Not all of us School staff are hiding behind our unions. Why have school staff become the demons in this mess? My year group is in the first to be called back after half term and if I’m needed I will be back! It’s my job, only one of my colleagues is cautious and that’s because her daughter has cystic fibrosis - so I don’t really blame her! I don’t know why most teachers don’t leave and become tube drivers, they never get the same stick when they go to their unions despite the chaos they cause and they have landed themselves a bloody jammy deal.

Anyway......

I for one do see the benefits of starting to get children back and understand this whole process to mean spreading out the rate of infection, not removing it completely. I’m going crazy in my home.

There’s plenty of parents who have their concerns as well as teachers. Both are divided

Will the industries affected the most by furloughing be open in June without constraints?

Are you suggesting schools have no impact on whether people can return to work? One of the industries facing an existential threat is the 'hospitality' sector. Presumably the government is planning some kind of resumption of restaurants, bars, etc, but it is very hard to see how the previous paradigm is compatible with social distancing. Many businesses will fail. The entire tourism sector, which is a key industry in Club Med, is facing an existential threat. Ditto airlines. There is a glut of supply and no storage, from oil to tulips. I can't predict what will happen in the UK, but one thing is crystal clear. If the current situation continues, the carnage in the economy may dwarf the carnage caused by Covid. Children returning to school is a symbolic as well as practical policy.

I think secondary school children should be returning first as their mental well being and education is more important and they will understand the social distancing rules more and adhere to them.

I am currently furloughed, have been since 24th March. Now I'm expected to what... leave my 13yo son home alone to self educate himself???

Are you suggesting schools have no impact on whether people can return to work?

Where did I do that?

I agree that what happens in the 6 weeks break will be interesting.

Socially distanced holiday clubs won’t work. And a huge amount of childcare in the holidays is normally done by over 70s.

Assuming I had work to do in my role and if my primary child returned to school that’s all fine until the summer holidays. Then what happens? I don’t have 6 weeks of annual leave- especially as we had to take some as a part of being furloughed. Do I have to request 6 weeks unpaid leave for summer? That’s unpaid, so no money. And what if my employer refuses as well they might if after being furloughed for months there is lots of work to do?

Suddenly there will be lots of parents (mothers) who are suddenly forcibly unemployed.