You CAN meet with other households - at 2M distance - England only ***title edited for clarity by MNHQ***

[lyralalala]

Dominic Raab just said on BBC breakfast you can meet up, socially distanced, with other people not from your household

He was specifically asked "Can I meet my Mum in the morning and my Dad in the afternoon?" and said yes, as long as you stay 2m apart

So confirms what was told to the journalists, but contradicts what Boris said

There's been some clarification since then because he got it wrong (apparently). You can meet one other person, outdoors, at 2m distance. But not in gardens because that counts as "home".

Thanks, @lyralalala

You can see though from my example how it can be misunderstood?

Is that one person from another household in any one 24 hour period?

@DateandTime

Ah. I see.

From Wednesday, unlimited exercise can be had so people from households can be grouped in their sporting activities and other households can be at the same park and so on...

It really is down to individuals managing this, sensibly.

Absolutely flabbergasted that these rules weren’t clarified among cabinet members before the broadcast. Raab is supposed to be the number 2 not a lowly minister.

Someone said on Twitter this morning which made me laugh
So if you are sat in the park 2 metres away from another couple and suddenly realise they’re your parents does that mean you have to get up and leave?

its a joke boris says only people from your houjseholds raab says u can mix household meetings outside

no clarity at all boris might aswell have not spoken last night at all

also work raab says wednesday boris said today

Its a complete bloody fiasco. Some interpreting it as lockdown being over regardless what was said. Bojo couldn’t give a stuff.
I felt so sorry for Nicola S on GMTV as Pierre’s never let her get a word in and was having a go at her for Bojo’s cock up/mixed message.

That wasn't the rule. You couldn't meet another household 2M apart.

I'm not saying it was encouraged but (as far as I'm aware) there wasn't anything specifically banning people from talking to other households whilst staying 2m apart, so long as they were doing daily exercise and not sitting stationary.

(I was trying to make the point that hardly anything has actually changed but I don't think I made it very well 😅. Also, I'd note that I haven't been out interacting with anyone myself.)

We don’t really need every single thing clarified! Raab himself even said apply common sense! It’s like people want to be babied in this! Common sense says I can work with 50 people in my workplace as long as I’m 2m apart. Therefore I’ll meet anyone as long as it’s 2m apart

It’s pretty obvious people just need to be adults and way up risks

So if you are sat in the park 2 metres away from another couple and suddenly realise they’re your parents does that mean you have to get up and leav

That should be a question at tonight's press briefing.

@BakedCam I can totally see how it could be misunderstood. That's why I started the thread as it's been a shit-show since last night.

It's not clear yet about the numbers of people you can meet.

@Frazzled2207 Absolutely flabbergasted that these rules weren’t clarified among cabinet members before the broadcast. Raab is supposed to be the number 2 not a lowly minister.

You would think after Gove twice having to issue corrections in the last rounds of major updates - he started the one hour myth and he also originally said that children couldn't go between parents houses - they'd have made sure this was completely nailed on.

I mean, they couldn't get the whole 50 page doc into Boris' spiel, but allowing people to meet their Mum/Dad/Bf at a social distance is a pretty major change.

Not only did they not mention it, but Raab then gave different versions on tv and radio and needed it clarifying.

I've got a relative who has been saying for weeks that they are deliberately making things confusing so they can blame the public for the death rates. We keep talking him down with sense, but I don't even know how we can refute that one. It's deliberate confusion or absolute sheer incompetance

@Willams3001,

I think that was the point I was trying to make. That nothing has changed. I was in the supermarket last week and I saw a friend, we chatted 2m apart.

Whether it is my mum, dad or Bob's brother from down the road, the important measure is the 2m apart.

That as far as I can see, hasn't changed. Households still cannot mix.

"It’s pretty obvious people just need to be adults and way up risks"

Except that what you've said is wrong daisymay. They're quite clearly said you can't meet "anyone" provided you're 2m apart and definitely not in the numbers you might do so at work.

If people can apply common sense that would be do your best to stay 2m apart and wash your hands frequently, but they're not saying that, there are more caveats to negotiate.

We don’t really need every single thing clarified! Raab himself even said apply common sense! It’s like people want to be babied in this! Common sense says I can work with 50 people in my workplace as long as I’m 2m apart. Therefore I’ll meet anyone as long as it’s 2m apart

It’s pretty obvious people just need to be adults and way up risks

When they've announced they're going to start issuing higher fines to people breaking the rules it's not unreasonable to expect the rules to be clear.

Since 7pm last night they've said "You can go to the park, but only with your household", "You can meet another household in the park at 2M" and "You can meet one-on-one in the park at 2M". They are three totally different things.

Right so I’ve just been in another thread where people are talking about having cleaners in and ‘they never had to stop coming round in he first place’. But if I can’t meet someone in a garden how the af can anyone justify getting a cleaner in.

@lyralalala

It is an absolute shit show. Because there are many scenarios that can be drawn from the guidance. Rather like Shapps saying we should cycle or walk. People that drive to work on motorways cannot simply do this as one example.

From what I can gather is that the original 'stay at home' orders have now changed to 'stay alert' I havent a problem with the change in the slogan. But what has been brought in really is not a change from the stay at home orders. Despite Raab 'where is Calais' saying we can meet our mum and dads. People could see their mum and dads last week as long as 2m apart.

@AravisTarkheena

Well, that puts another spin on this. Cleaners cannot work from home, so they can go to work.

Which they could have done last week. As the original guidance was WFH where possible.

@AravisTarkheena I think that's because the cleaner is going to work.

I could have my DD's carer in and that's allowed (we haven't because we can cope and I'd rather not take the risk when she's in lots of houses). Nannies are allowed because it's work.

You're allowed to work if you can't work from home, which a cleaner can't, and can stay 2M from others, which could be done in a house by not having anyone in the room the cleaner is in.

It's the work vs social thing.

It's hard to see what any of higher fines will be for ?

Partys and mixing households indoors perhaps but outdoors the only theoretical fine will be to be closer than 2mtrs to someone.

The regulations and fines only apply to gatherings in public spaces. The police have never had any right to fine people for house parties. Though they could fine people for the journey to or from the party if it were deemed non-essential.

insights.doughtystreet.co.uk/post/102g6tz/guide-to-coronavirus-offences-help-for-the-public-police-and-lawyers

@BakedCam It's a change in the orders in that people weren't supposed to actively meet up with their Mums or Dads last week.

I actually think it partly could be to try and stop the garden meetings. They are more likely to lead to closer distances and people popping in for the loo/for a cuppa etc.

It is an absolute shit-show.

Even down to the fact they were asked by Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford to be very, very clear that these changes only apply in England. All he did was waffle about being the UK PM. Which is true, but not relevant to these changes.

@lyralalala this so demonstrates how poor communication has been, the mere suggestion of nannies and cleaners was met with Horror on MN 6 weeks ago. I really don’t think individuals are to blame for making whatever decisions they felt appropriate (within reason) but after 7+ weeks by myself I’m struggling to see the difference between having a friend in my home or a cleaner. Work vs social isn’t relevant to the speed of an illness. I’m so done with the government’s continuing education backpedaling and confused ‘clarifications’.

Ah There’s a rogue education in my post - didn’t mean that.

Having read this thread, the Guardian what are the rules article and my family WA group I am now so confused!

@lyralalala

From my observations, the stay at home orders since March 26, have been relaxed. Where the confusion is, is the meeting mums and dads.

Can meet a friend/family member from another household in a public place, away from home maintaining a 2m distance.

I think it is the permission that has been given now that has thrown people.

The 2m distance and not mixing households remain as they were.

@Friendsofmine Downing St clarified that you can meet one person from another household outside and at 2M. apparently Mr Raab "got it wrong".

@AravisTarkheena In some ways I agree with you. It's been an absolute shit-show of organising.

I think the big issue with the social thing is that people tend to get closer in situations - you hug your family, but not your workmates - so you are more likely to pass the virus on. You're also likely to have considerably more friends than you are cleaners

Essentially a lot of it is about the economy. It's a Tory government - they're not going to want a lot of cleaners claiming Universal Credit if they can just make them someone else's problem.

I assume there's also an element that if they say "work only" they know that a % of people will breach that, but that won't be as many as if they say "aye, have all your pals round"

@BakedCam I have messaged MNHQ to see if the title of the thread can be changed from mix to meet. Mix was used by BBC, but meet is more accurate with the 2M rule