So how come Australia is still locked down?

[Teddypops]

So Australia has approx 20 new cases a day and barely no deaths.

So how come they are still locked down?

[HappydaysArehere]

@Reginabambino Thank you for that. This young man is the brother of my grandson’s partner. She lives locally and while she has been dropping off shopping she has been telling me this. She said, as you have, that if he had finished his citizenship he would have had no trouble. However, at the moment he is frustrated and in lockdown with his parents in Brighton. She has told me that he has already spent some thousands on this citizenship. He loves Australia and has built a life there.

[timeisnotaline]

Saying ‘but it’s your job’ doesn’t necessarily achieve anything. My kids childcare have been juggling staff working vs managing anxieties. The 4 day person they insisted must work 2 days, but if they insisted more Quitting was a big risk. Others have quit, so it’s not their job anymore. Some are casual and simply say I don’t want work this month. One has children at home and they can say whatever they like, she’s not leaving them home alone.

[Reginabambina]

@HappydaysArehere do you mean he’s part way through the citizenship process? What kind of visa does he have? If he’s a permanent resident they’ll let him in. If he has any kind other of visa he can apply for an exemption.

[Reginabambina]

@CallItLoneliness certainly true about children living in abusive households, I left them out which was lacking. I’d disagree on the point of extroverted children. My elder child is extremely extroverted (the rest of us are very much classic introverts) and it’s been great for him. He found it stressful at first but now he’s really come into his own and seems to be learning to like his own company. Extreme extroversion is a problem that people need to deal with after all. It’s probably really good that he’s had the chance to fix this about himself at a young age before his personality becomes set. I’m quite pleased for him really even if it’s been annoying for us for the first month.

[HoppingPavlova]

ThumbWitchesAbroad, putting aside your incorrect use of the word ‘literally’, your post was posing the question of whether the ‘science stacks up’ which was a question but it was based on a statement of fact that distance education has been part of the Australian schooling system for many years. I pointed out that they are two completely different systems at present, in no way comparable so to answer your question comparing apples and oranges will in no way show ‘what stacks up’.

The rest of my post was in response to comments from a variety of posts, not only yours but I guess it could be a flip side to your statement but is it REALLY that awful for them to NOT have that for a short period? Yes, for many children it really is that awful and it could be argued that it’s not a short period, especially for disadvantaged kids.

[HoppingPavlova]

I too think the risk is minimal but the stress levels aren’t, and that needs to be allowed for. You cant just tell a teacher the data says it’s fine and expect their stress levels to drop, it’s not rational.

How does this differ to any other workplace though? Or any other non-Covid situation? Struggling to understand the difference?

I have had a number of patients over the years who were pedestrians hit by vehicles mounting the sidewalk (driver distraction, medical incident etc). Not to mention those in car accidents through no fault of their own. Is it reasonable to say I can’t come to work due to underlying stress brought on by the minimal risk of me being in a car accident on my way to/from work or being hit by a car while walking down the road from the train/bus to work? This is no different, in fact I would estimate the odds of a teacher being involved in an accident to/from work is higher than the chance of contracting Covid from a student yet they seem happy to take one risk and not the other?

In fact, when you think of a teaching environment I can think of lots of things that would be much higher risk than Covid, risks that have always existed pre-Covid but again these all seem okay and acceptable but Covid with a lower risk is not. It’s perplexing.

[timeisnotaline]

It’s perplexing and not rational. But, it’s there. If you in your example sat at home and said I’m traumatised and not coming in and you were prepared to lose your job over it, there’s not much anyone can do.

[HoppingPavlova]

I completely agree that if people suffer irrational stress and are prepared to chuck in the job because of it that’s fine. Nothing wrong with that, it’s an individual choice that needs to be respected. But that’s not what teachers are doing here. They are wanting to retain their job but modify it by working remotely and handing over part of the work and responsibility (supervision, assistance, organisation) to parents. Given what we now understand regarding risk, why is this acceptable? If they don’t wish to accept any risk with teaching, and there are far greater than Covid as standard, then resigning is a valid option but that’s not what’s happening here. Note, I’m only talking about our local educational environment, I’m not speaking for the UK.

[snappycamper]

They never actually fully locked down in the the first place. A friend who lives there kept her toddler in day care the whole time

[HoppingPavlova]

Sorry, should have added that to me it seems no different than saying I’m not prepared to drive or take transport to work, I feel this is a risk and that should be respected. I won’t resign though. Instead I demand modifications to suit. So instead of coming to work I will now be working remotely, I’ll use the computer to assess and observe and I’ll give instructions to the ward clerk and if they and the patient can’t muddle through then that’s okay, I have rights and am stressed due to the potential in my mind of having that car accident on the way in. Why are teachers being treated differently to everyone else in every other job with this?

[timeisnotaline]

I’m only describing exactly what’s happened at our fabulous childcare and the choices staff are making. You’re saying you would never do that, and nor would most people. But, some certainly are!

[Leflic]

I suspect one of the reasons teaching staff don’t fancy going back is the absolute raft of additional organisation they’ll be required to implement, whilst delivering the curriculum in chaos.
Where are they picking up the year from? Where they left off or what the LTP has down for the summer term. What about the kids that don’t turn up? Endless phoning home, meetings to re integrate, balancing the fact they may well be off legitimately or just used to getting up at 11 now. Hand washing, toilet breaks, non school uniform battles with parents who can’t source clothes with shops shut or afford them with no work.
It’s going to be a bloody nightmare.

[CallItLoneliness]

@Leflic yeah, it's going to be a bloody nightmare, but (in contrast to the picture painted here) many teachers are loathing working from home, too. Life is a bloody nightmare at the moment. Teachers aren't exempt from that because they are teachers, any more than I am exempt because I am a parent and an academic or @HoppingPavlova is because she is a clinician.

@snappycamper daycare is one of the weirdnesses in this whole thing. I suspect it is because shutting daycare down really would have completely shut the economy down. We can pretend a 5 year old can sort themselves out...not so a 3 year old.

[LiesHumansTellThemselves]

DS2's teacher is desperate to get back to school. I does occur to me that (at our school at least) we have large, open, outdoor (but undercover) spaces. Get the kids rugged up and do a couple of lessons outside or even on the oval.

Or forget too many sit down in class lessons. Take them out and get them to have fun, run around a lot more.

DS2 is back tomorrow and back to afternoon OOSH. He is so excited.

[Turangawaewae]

The UK and NZ were originally on the same trajectory. But we blocked incoming travel early. The UK is still one of very few countries (possibly 3!) which does not have travel restrictions - see the map below.

travel restrictions

[GreenTulips]

LiesHumansTellThemselves

Just wondering if you’re free to impart your knowledge and understanding of the difficulty running a school to say the Water Board or maybe the local shops?

What’s the point of ‘running around outside’ which their parents could facilitate?

Teacher teach. There’s more to organise then where the kids might run round

Toilets? Kids spitting? Injuries? Violet students that need removing? Feeding them?

Dear me if it’s just a question of them running round for 6 hours I think you’ve cracked it

[LiesHumansTellThemselves]

Shrug. Our school already spends a lot of time outside. Obviously not all the time but a couple of extra hours a day for now, why not? Better than having them all together in the classroom at the same time.

We have huge enclosed/covered grounds at our suburban school. All recess and lunch times are taken outside (even in wet weather due to the covered colas etc).

It won't be perfect, it won't work everywhere but it isn't a giant leap to think that if this thing spreads more inside then maybe we should be outside.

There is no "all or nothing" answer. I have faith in my kids schools/teachers. So far they are doing an excellent job.

The OOSH at our school is 90% outside. Again, even in wet weather they use the verandah rather than keep the kids in.

If we have the space, we might as well use it.

[timeisnotaline]

To be fair even if the U.K. had slammed down travel restrictions they would still have had at least a bunch of people back from the ski slopes with it plus some from china but would have made a huge difference.
We are going to see the in laws on the weekend, exciting stuff! Dh keeps saying yes but we can’t all get together (as all his siblings and children are too many people) and I think I might smother him with a pillow if he says it again. Fine, don’t come see your parents. On what planet did you imagine you’d suddenly be able to get 20 people together? It’ll happen, could you just shut up about it?! I might be a bit stressed this week

[LiesHumansTellThemselves]

Happily, my family are all quite anti-social (even with each other). We get along fine, but mostly weddings, christenings, funerals and Christmas is it. We are all spread out around the country and are used to only seeing/chatting with each other online/remotely.

I won't lie and say that the lack of pressure to spend time with my inlaws for Easter/Mothers Day was unpleasant.

[janeskettle]

Well, I'm back at a Sydney school and doing my bit for the economy! Hoping like crazy the NSW research isn't an anomaly, and that children actually don't transmit coronavirus, because there is no way to socially distance from children at school.

Also hoping there's not too much virus still around - a teacher at another Sydney school was diagnosed yesterday and the school closed for deep cleaning.

I won't lie - it's not great being susceptible to the virus,and having someone immunocompromised at home, and working across multiple classrooms with multiple kids - yes, numbers are low, but they will rise as people resume more normal activities - but it has been nice to see the kids. They're actually better at keeping a distance from adults than the adults are!

[timeisnotaline]

I’m glad you don’t sound as stressed janeskettle (& apologies if I have the wrong poster!) id love to see some data on transmission in schools, I’m hoping it’s near nil from students to other students or teachers. That seems to be what happens but not enough evidence.

[janeskettle]

Right poster, timeisnotaline

I hope so too, but I'd rather have gone back on the basis of something a little stronger than the NSW study.

I am worried about public transport. I don't drive, and usually take the bus to work - the bus is normally packed - at the moment I'm getting a lift from my 70+ yrs parent - not ideal.

I really don't understand why we're not hearing anything about public transport, which many people have no choice about using, and so much about pubs, which people can avoid if they need to.

Because physical distancing is impossible on a bus, I think masks should be mandatory, with exemptions for medical reasons. It's not just other passengers but drivers who are at risk.

I will have to go back to using the bus, and will wear my own mask, but my mask protects others. I need others to wear masks to protect me.

Prior to children being encouraged to learn from home, about 1/3 of bus passengers were wearing masks. There are often elderly people on the buses, who use them to get to the shops. I hope they all have people prepared to do their shopping for them for the long term!

Mostly I just hope that employers, and employees and parents' behaviours change, to allow adult workers and children at school to stay home when they are unwell or have symptoms of illness, without people having to choose between public health and paying the rent.

[user68901]

I have lived in Melbourne . It is VERY spacious compared to London.

[StartupRepair]

Melbourne housing is more spacious but our trams and trains are crammed at morning and evening peak and our roads are congested too. I think we will need to change all our assumptions about work as this progresses.

[janeskettle]

Yeah, the buses at peak time are not 'spacious'. Would that they were. I mean, sure, it's great that in some suburbs, people live on large blocks, but that really doesn't have anything to do with public transport. It's not like we also have super-sized buses.

My DIL has been catching the tram to work this whole time - there's no social distancing on the tram. She's dreading increased numbers.