For those who want schools to go back..

[pfrench]

.. tell us how you think it should work. Primary or secondary.

In your ideal world.

How would social distancing be adhered to?
How about drop off and pick up?
How would classrooms operate?
How about lunchtimes and breaktimes?
What about after school childcare provision?
What about staff who are sheidling?
What about children who are sheilding?
What about staff who have family members who are sheilding?
Should only some children go back? Who should they be and why?

So many education and school experts on here, it will be interesting to read your safe solutions.

Hairdressers too.

Cos let's face it, no one wants schools to go back without having had their roots sorted out!!

But seriously, dentists! Aagh, so many people I know with tooth ache. They use PPA as standard though, and touching bodies is the job, rather than an occupational hazard.

@Fedup21 yes, everyone in the school has to wear one at all times

That’s interesting.

It’s easy to see why the U.K. government saying yesterday that teachers won’t need masks in schools makes us lack confidence in them.

I think the government will leave it to individual schools to decide with a certain social distancing criteria they have to fulfil.

Yep.

So every school will be run and open differently to the next one and lots of people will be unhappy. But it won't be the government's fault. Just those work shy teachers

Of course!

Anyway, thanks for a useful and calm conversation folks.

I'm off to record my lessons for Monday and upload them to the school website. Have a nice weekend.

For secondary school I would like my children to go in two days a week with 50% of children in the class. They could remain in the same classroom and teachers move about. They could focus on English, maths and science on those two days with other subjects continuing online. Masks optional. The fact that some subjects are continuing online gives some options for some teachers who are at risk to stay at home and continue working.

For anyone interested here are the latest statistics! Between 31 January and 6th May:
619 under 5 years old have tested positive for CV
279 5 to 9 year olds have tested positive for CV
1134 10 to 19 year old have tested positive for CV

Of those 11 have died, 3 of which had no known underlying health conditions.

There was a very interesting article on BBC news website today which asked whether the message from the government had cause too much fear. If you are under 65 with no underlying health condition you are still far more likely to die from self harm, cancer, heart disease or accident than CV, and even in the vulnerable but not shielded category you are still more likely to survive than die, albeit it will be a worse illness.

I agree with the lockdown, I think it was needed and I think there will need to be a public inquiry after this is all over as to how this was handled but I think we need to think about how we move out of lockdown.

I wouldn't be happy exiting lockdown now but in 3 weeks, if the numbers keep going down then I think I would want some things to open up.

My suggestion would be teachers at risk somehow unite and provide all the home learning for those children who are vulnerable or who live with someone shielding, maybe make the oak academy more of an online school like interhigh.

But for everyone else we need to think of how to get things back and I think primary schools first maybe phased and see what happens. My children are really struggling, my husband runs his own business and has had no income for 2 months now but is working hard to make sure he has business after lockdown and I am trying to wfm. It's not sustainable long term. There is no magic or easy answer so I think we have to accept for now CV is here and not going anywhere and design our lives around that. I wish we didn't have to and we have found a way to eradicate CV but we haven't.

By the way the stats come from the government survailance report into CV, it's quite interesting reading www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports

How would social distancing be adhered to?
Unlikely it could be properly. Like in my place of work (MH unit). I think there would need to be a lot more reliance on masks and good hygiene practises than on distancing.

How about drop off and pick up?
I would assume schools would put in place plans and parents and carers would follow instructions about how this would work: as every school building is different it's impossible to give a general answer.

How would classrooms operate?
As they did before, mostly, except with a lot more handwashing and probably mask wearing.

How about lunchtimes and breaktimes?
Stagger them. If a lack of kitchen facilities makes this difficult, go to a cold food only menu- not reasonable for anyone to kick up a fuss about a lack of hot dinners in such a situation and buy some fridges.

What about after school childcare provision?
Essential if you want people to be able to work. Masks and handwashing to be important again.

What about staff who are sheidling?
They continue to shield.

What about children who are sheilding?
They continue to shield.

What about staff who have family members who are sheilding?
I'm sure this will come as a huge surprise... if resident with said family members they continue to shield.

Should only some children go back? Who should they be and why?
At first, yes, it makes more sense to start back with only some year groups and build up from there. I'd say year 6- they need transition desperately.

I'm a bit bemused by the extent of the kick back against people wanting schools to reopen, by the belief that problems are insurmountable, by the apparent ignorance of the fact that many, many settings in which it is even more difficult than in schools to socially distance effectively have remained open and working throughout this.

I know my dc would find it odd to wear masks, be surrounded by other children and staff wearing masks, for there to be very different drop off/ pick up arrangements, breaks and dinners to be staggered etc. But they find life as it is now very odd indeed anyway, and they need to get back to school as soon as it can be done, for so many reasons.

Our school before lock down had got an excellent grip on this - Junior school with 3 classes per year - 396 pupils.

The lower and upper school didn't mix. Each year took a different break and lunch time. strict hand washing was adhered to, any signs of Covid illness and child sent home. Class assemblies only, lunches to be eaten in the class so no mixing in the dining hall. Pack lunches to be brought in where ever possible.

Its hard and extra pressure on the teachers, but it worked. Obviously they couldn't do the 2 meter distancing in the class room. As a school governor I've heard feedback from the teachers and most were happy with the set up. Those that weren't were listened to and other precautions were tried to be put in place.

I don't believe that there is any one stock answer. It will depend on the size of the school, the layout, age of the children. The teachers and support staff.

I hope that those parents who choose to keep the children off will not be fined and those that choose to send them in won't be vilified for 'not caring enough'

As a family that doesn't have any underlying health conditions, my choice is to send my children back as soon as the school re-opens, for everyone's sanity and well-being. As a single parent, I need to work. No job and the house being repossessed scares me far more right now.

Is it actually bad if different schools do things differently? Not every community will have the same needs and problems. I think it would be great to let schools be flexible.

DfE have put this out today by the way:

dfemedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/05/07/school-reopening-covid19/?fbclid=IwAR1KF3wreIMnKOLjR6EhWRBVwYgW2Fvf3JAHUac2KHAY8MQ7U4FJLxJ1r60

my choice is to send my children back as soon as the school re-opens, for everyone's sanity and well-being

Mine too. She'll go in as a key worker child as soon as I'm back in school full time.

They need transition desperately.

I’m really bemused by this nonsense about Y6. The secondary school inductions are vanishingly unlikely to go ahead as well.

Is it actually bad if different schools do things differently?

No - it's the right way to do things. Heads know their school communities. But that has been the way 'remote working' has been operating too, and look at how much issue there has been with it. No parents seem particularly happy with what their school has done, even though the school will have made decisions based on what is best for most people in their community.

This 'transition' that people suggest Y6 children should go back in straight away to do - is it a full half term of activities? I'm asking as a former secondary teacher who used to do school visits to primary for transition.

Or is it something that could be done in September by having Y7 in on their own (alongside sixth form where relevant) for a couple of days?

I’m really bemused by this nonsense about Y6

Me too - get them in for a day to do sex ed, chat about secondary, sign some shirts, then the rest is up to their secondary schools.

I don't have a strong opinion really, but year 6 would be good for a trial run of making systems work - being the oldest and allegedly most sensible. Year 1 would be the best in terms of reading - if we're in small groups, say 6 kids per teacher, then we can have them all reading. Which is one of the key differences/challenges between 'vulnerable' children, SEN children and children working at age related expectations.

Schools in Quebec, Canada are reopening on Monday. But only for those in lower grades who can’t stay home alone.

I’d certainly not want to send my children back to this

They are the worst hit province, and the ONLY one reopening. This is economy over lives.

Those saying the government will leave it to individual schools to decide I actually think is the right response. There are so many variables, a small rural school with large playing fields will be able to run things totally differently to an inner city secondary. Some areas still have 3 tier system where some have 2, I definitely don’t think there is a one size fits all option. Heads or academy leaders should be discussing with their staff and find out what will/wont work, then go from there.

We have already been told by our local authority (remaining nameless) that we are not allowed PPE as it will cause the children distress.

Does anyone know if any other profession has been told this?

Staff or children who are shielding clearly can't return.
Keep at safe distances at drop off and pick up.
Unfortunately it's nigh on impossible to social distance in class (in my case primary age).
Have regular hand washing breaks as currently recommended.
Follow guidelines on staying away with temperatures/symptoms.
Perhaps not having communal dining?
Maybe a bit simplistic but my children's school with less than 100 so is achievable. I'm sure this won't be the case in all scenarios so I am sure individual schools are going to have to do their own risk assessment and set up.

@Secretlifeofme can you tell me how they approach mask wearing by teachers if they work with children with eg ASD who cannot handle mask wearing of any sort?

I 1:1 with a boy who cannot handle masks/costumes at all, so I have no idea how to approach possibly being advised/instructed to wear a mask in class.

We have already been told by our local authority (remaining nameless) that we are not allowed PPE as it will cause the children distress.

It was on the government briefing yesterday that teachers won’t be needing it.

Hi @pfrench

Good thread. I'd say realistically all the requirements in your questions need to be relaxed. I'd be inclined to isolate those who are vulnerable and let the rest of us keep the place going as usual.

Quick one to leave you with.

What about children with significant behaviour erm, challenges? Do you think schools are within their rights to refuse to have children who for example, build paper spit towers, or lick other children, who cough on others intentionally, who don't stay in classrooms on normal days, let alone if they were reduced to one room for a whole day?

It was on the government briefing yesterday that teachers won’t be needing it.

Yet I'd wear a face mask in the supermarket! Ha.

Maybe it should be choice - children will eventually get used to seeing them. Scary at first, then just normal? Less about what the government thinks we 'need', more about what we might 'want'.

@fedup21 thank you, do you have a source for that?

Presumably no-one except those working in direct contact with suspected/ confirmed Covid cases will then?

What about children with significant behaviour erm, challenges? Do you think schools are within their rights to refuse to have children who for example, build paper spit towers, or lick other children, who cough on others intentionally, who don't stay in classrooms on normal days, let alone if they were reduced to one room for a whole day

This one hugely worries me. We have one who

Kicks
Hits
Scratches
Spits
Runs

Etc etc

It often involves the HT physically removing them from the class.

What would that look like under the new ‘norm’?