For those who want schools to go back..

[pfrench]

.. tell us how you think it should work. Primary or secondary.

In your ideal world.

How would social distancing be adhered to?
How about drop off and pick up?
How would classrooms operate?
How about lunchtimes and breaktimes?
What about after school childcare provision?
What about staff who are sheidling?
What about children who are sheilding?
What about staff who have family members who are sheilding?
Should only some children go back? Who should they be and why?

So many education and school experts on here, it will be interesting to read your safe solutions.

Hardly any other countries are opening up schools yet though, so we can’t watch that

Yes they are. Look at France, Germany, Norway, Denmark for ideas on how to make it work.

Shield vulnerable children and staff. Let fearful parents keep their kids off school for the next 6 months and miss out on a proper education and let the rest of us crack on with our fucking lives!!!

FWIW, research has suggested far more poorer families do not want to send their children to school as opposed to wealthier ones and so the achievement gap widens. Great job 👏🏼

Why does all this have to be done at all op?

Less than 30 people under 45 have died, who had no underlying conditions, less than a hundred under 55.

Isn’t the question you should be asking is how to ensure the vulnerable aren’t exposed.

The statistics would show there is no need for any of the stringent measures you indicate for anyone under 55 with no underlying health conditions. We cannot protect against every death. Be if from pneumonia or this.

The trouble with schools opening longer, is that many teachers have small kids too. If I'm in.work.until 6, i need provision until 7.

I specifically used this example in the context of saying government would need to fund additional services in schools including supply teachers etc because of course we can't suddenly change teachers' total working hours. Funding would also include cost of additional teachers generally to facilitate, where possible, smaller classes. Cost of additional cleaning staff to ensure more regular deep cleaning and sanitisation. Perhaps additional staff to perform tests, take temperatures etc. Some examples I gave, some I didn't. The point is that I don't believe schools can go back if government doesn't accept it will need to provide some additional funding to make it work.

I really resent the snarky tone of your post OP. Do you think people should just sit wringing their hands saying "nothing will work, let's just keep education on hold for another year"? Lots of sensible thoughts on here, which is more than your goady post deserved.

*Teachers may wear masks. Or be behind screens, realise it’s impossible to teach or maintain discipline like that and give up.

Any cleaning equipment will probably be provided by teachers as government stock will be available ASAP. Probably showing up around April.

Shielding children will stay at home. Supply teachers will make a fortune as staff shield. Adults involved in the system will show increased rates of infection and death.

There will be no clapping for teaching staff.*

Yes, I agree with that in the main. There also won't be enough soap or hand sanitiser anywhere again, and I'll be bringing it in from home.

As a bonus, it's been a way of using all those 'bath sets' you get given at Christmas but never open and stack in the airing cupboard!

Look most of us are likely to get CV if we’ve not had it already. We are highly likely to be fine (unless shielding and even then you are more likely to recover than not). Some teachers and hysterical parents need to get over themselves and start weighing up the damage keeping kids out of school is doing versus the risks of catching cv. I know people are going to respond they had a friend who was really ill for 2 weeks etc. Well my dh was really ill with the flu for 2 weeks a few years ago. Or the person who knows the random person with no underlying health condition who sadly died of CV. Yes it’s a tragedy, but so is the death of the young person who died in a car crash near me last year.
Please stop criticising any suggestions people are making for reopening schools and start putting this in perspective. Keeping kids out of education for much longer is going to have catastrophic consequences for millions. Fact.

Agreed, awaywiththecircus.

research has suggested far more poorer families do not want to send their children to school as opposed to wealthier ones and so the achievement gap widens. Great job

Great job by who? The gov have done a really good scare job, for sure.

I really resent the snarky tone of your post OP

Just close it and don't reply then. Simple.

There are some really good ideas in this thread. If you tune out the ones that are basically calling teachers dicks, the rest are interesting as a conversation.

Please stop criticising any suggestions people are making for reopening schools and start putting this in perspective.

I don't think anyone in this thread is doing that. On the contrary, there have been some good ideas for getting schools to extend their provision in the current climate of seemingly high fear levels.

Just because you're not scared of it, doesn't mean you get to tell people to get over themselves.

@awaywiththecircus from my own personal perspective, I'm not terribly worried about my DC. I do accept that schools MAY be a hot bed of CV breeding which potentially endangers others and increases the spread again.

So for my own sake, I'm with you - completely happy to send kids back to school and will most likely go along with whatever the government/my local council/our school does.

But I do understand the concerns. not just from the paranoid who will keep their DC locked up even though they're perfectly healthy and more likely to die from an accident in the shower, but from people who worry that if children are super spreaders, and the whole school lands up with it, those children are then going to spread it very quickly to parents, grandparents and the many places they go. Hence why I think whatever schools do will have to take precautions into account.

it's also why I wish the scientists could figure out some way to understand if children ARE super spreaders or if their lower likelihood of getting it also translates to lower likelihood of transmitting it.

Only under 400 people who are under 45 have died of CV in the UK so we let children get and spread it.

Secondly teachers with serious medical conditions, obesity etc may have to resign and be replaced.

I would just get everyone back pretty quickly this term at once. If we want to pay the wages of teachers in September then we will need parents back to work ASAP to pay tax to fund teachers and schools.

I wonder how stupid people are when they talk about 'social distancing' in primary schools. The children will all be using the same toilets. And children's bathroom hygiene is not good.

I want schools to go back on Monday with none of this social distancing nonsense, which is only there as a fairy story for people who are shit scared of something that there's no reason to be frightened of.

Covid is an illness that is unlikely to kill you, just like flu, just like chicken pox, just like scarlet fever. Stopping your children's lives for it makes absolutely no sense.

Agree with @awaywiththecircus

We can not deny children (who are very low risk) an education.

We didn’t close schools because it wasn’t safe. We did it to control the spread of the virus and to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS is not overwhelmed.

We need to start working out how we can get kids back to school, not necessarily right now but we can’t wait until we have a vaccine.

Agree about deregistering your kids and homeschooling them if you don’t like the plan.

In reality they won’t socially distance will they.

Special schools are due back first and they have to do everything from restraints to addressing medical needs.
There’s no choice though. Stuff needs to get going slowly and children aren’t a particularly risky group. If people can work in retail and care homes through the worse of this then schools are fine.
I would be more worried about bus drivers and getting kids physically into schools.

You are never going to please everyone.
There are people out there that think schools should stay shut until 0 cases in the whole of the UK...then some probably still wouldn't be happy opening going on the ridiculous OTT of some posters.
Phased return to work and phased return for children.
The economy is important!
Already we have been told that we are in for the biggest recession ever.... so some people won't be happy until we are completely messed up financially and then will moan anyway... basically some people moan about everything.
Time to start moving about again with social distancing. We cannot sit around hand wringing forever.
Bills have to be paid, food put on the table, some people don't want to sit around on benefits and to the rest who want to stay home... go on sick pay....

Yes the ‘social distancing‘ in schools idea seems totally ridiculous and pointless to me- it’s a whole load of extra stress for teachers and will make absolutely no difference in stopping the spread of a respiratory virus.
But schools have to go back. Society as a whole can implement the best hygiene practices possible and try and limit the spread, but life has to continue.

How would social distancing be adhered to?
Space between seats...

I'm sure you've written down loads of ideas but the first on your list won't happen.
I've yet to see a classroom with 'space' - a maximum of 6 children could spread out in mine.

Can I just let you know @pfrench that the way your working now does not 'reduce your viral load.' If you're not infected with covid your viral load is zero and will remain zero until you are infected.

If you are talking about potential to be infected that's another thing.

Can I just say again for anyone who still thinks social distancing in schools (or offices, or any workplace for that matter) is possible:

TOILETS
TOILETS
TOILETS

Thanks

I'm happy for schools to go back after half term. Perhaps with half a class in per day, lots of handwashing and that's it.

Children are extremely low risk. Adults under 55 are lowish risk. A vaccine/highly successful treatment could be years off if at all. We can't just cancel the education of a generation for a few years. Home schooling is fine for some (I'm a sahm and am capable/confident teaching my DC) but isn't for lots, the attainment gap will just widen.

Lockdown was never meant to stop the virus simply slow its initial spread. Now we need to move to a reality where those at low risk return to work/school, those who are extremely vulnerable shield, and everyone socially distances. It's the only way forward that I can see.

All pretty logical and sensible really it's just that the hysterical quarters of MN will be calling for the schools to be shut for the rest of the year

Yeh... have you been in a school recently?
All this talk of 'space'...
Children are also not robotic... would be great if we were talking about the organisation of a production line and it's workers but we're not.

Why would anyone assume it’ll be all kids back at once? In fact the way it is going, it may be that we will almost be at the summer holidays before all year groups are back in and even then I bet it is not full time.

So start with a few years and use the staff you have got to teach. Stagger drop off and Pick up. Don’t have children in all week.

Here in Germany the government has said that all children should be back in school at least for some limited hours by the end of the month. Schools can decide for themselves how to do it. There are a couple options, all of which depend on dividing each class into two groups:

Group A attends in morning, Group B in afternoon
Group A and B attend full days but alternating (so 2 days a week each)
Group A attends full time one week, Group B full time the next week

The smaller classes will allow distancing. Hygiene is already quite good because it is emphasised so much in Germany from a very young age.

It is still expected that kids will do a lot of home learning and being in school is more to keep pace rather than have normal levels of learning going on.

I think the key thing is to let each school decide based on what is best for their own community.

For those who don't think schools should open what's the alternative? What would your plan be?