For those who want schools to go back..

[pfrench]

.. tell us how you think it should work. Primary or secondary.

In your ideal world.

How would social distancing be adhered to?
How about drop off and pick up?
How would classrooms operate?
How about lunchtimes and breaktimes?
What about after school childcare provision?
What about staff who are sheidling?
What about children who are sheilding?
What about staff who have family members who are sheilding?
Should only some children go back? Who should they be and why?

So many education and school experts on here, it will be interesting to read your safe solutions.

What is the security and safeguarding issue with this?

There aren't safeguarding issues with recording lessons. There are safeguarding issues with streaming lessons via MS Teams or Zoom or whatever. There are lots of things that make recording lessons from home difficult and time consuming, but it's realistically not any more complicated than doing any other job from home at the moment. And we know that lots of jobs that are straightforward in an office without your kids around, are much more complicated and time consuming at home with kids. It's the same for us. But this is an emergency situation and everyone is doing their best.

Anyway, this thread wasn't about how much work teachers should or shouldn't be doing. There have been plenty of unpleasant ones about that this week already.

As for staff who live with a shielding relative - there are HCP's frontline who have shielding relatives, what makes teachers so special?

All the more reason to make sure we send less cases to hospitals etc for HCPs to care for and put themselves at risk.

Opening schools doesn’t do that. Exposing teachers doesn’t do that.

Hospitals and care homes need to be open. Schools do not.

The social distancing would confuse our kids. Confuse them like mad. It’s upset them more than being at home.

@nellodee Are you homeschooling kids yourself? We are at breaking point in our house. Doing this until there is a vaccine is absolutely not sustainable. I find your "we just need to be a lot better at its delivery" utterly naive and totally dismissive of how impossibly stressful it is to be trying to work at the same time as delivering education. People cannot do two jobs simultaneously indefinitely. I find your comments laughable and invite you to walk in my shoes for a week and see if you still think closing schools indefinitely is a workable idea.

Are people not worried about the new hyper inflammatory disease that children are getting as a result of Corona virus? New article in the Evening Standard today about 40 children treated in London with it.

Not really, no. It is a tiny number of cases out of millions of people and most of the kids didn't even test positive for the virus. Children also die from freak chickenpox and bee sting complications, not to mention the risk of getting hit by a car every time we leave the house. My toddler has already fallen from a chair she had climbed on and bruised her face, because I was frantically overstretched and distracted by trying to work and homeschool and supervise a toddler at the same time. There will be more accidents like this. Other children will also die of abuse and neglect. All these risks have to be balanced. The risk to teachers is more concerning than the risk to kids.

It would be a very sparse provision if subjects requiring specialist spaces/equipment like art, PE, DT, drama, PE, dance, computer science, music all had to be taught just from books, or very limited media.

Also, no assemblies, no school plays, no performances, no 'science day' or the like when people come together in the hall, no book fairs,

Sure. That's fine with me. Because kids aren't getting these things at the moment either. They also aren't getting much basic instruction in core subjects. They are often spending huge amounts of time watching TV or playing games because the parents can't cope. They are babysitting younger siblings. They are getting shouted at by their parents who are trying desperately to keep their jobs and are at the end of their tether.

Even crappy, pared down, really boring sit-in-rows-read-the-textbook-and-answer-the-questions school would be better than this.

Those who do not like this vision of school and feel they can do a better job at home should be free to keep their kids at home and HS without punishment, pressure, fines or the threat of losing their school place.

We can't wait for a vaccine. We need some kind of less-than-brilliant minimal version of school that just about works for the moment.

I would be fine with music, art, dance, PSHE and a whole bunch of other things being scrapped for the moment. Get the kids walking or jogging round the playground (spaced out) twice a day in lieu of PE lessons. I am not a philistine but we need to focus on plugging maths, literacy, geography, history and science gaps for the disadvantaged students.

I think the children and families who are struggling the most should be the first to return. So the return would be based on social and emotional reasons and any children with sen whose parents want them to go in. Schools and other agencies involved would identify these children. Special schools need reopening for children who it is safe to attend. Social distancing may well be difficult or impossible for many of these children but the small numbers of children involved will go towards compensating for that.

I am not a philistine but we need to focus on plugging maths, literacy, geography, history and science gaps for the disadvantaged students.

Yes, take away all the subjects many disadvantaged (and come to think of it, not so disadvantaged) children thrive in and enjoy.
That will motivate them...

i think the only safe-ish way is to give us visors. All other key workers have some sort of protection, but we have nothing at all. if we do activities/work in school (infants) then the children need you right next to them. if we are outside playing, then they are next to each other.

it wouldn't surprise me AT ALL if the Govt announce that schools will open for the last 2/3 weeks of term..........& then close their eyes, put their fingers in their ears & whistle, hoping that all the resulting cases happen over the summer holidays .........

& though splitting classes into groups of 10 or whatever might be the best way forwRd, i can hear the phine calls already......."jasper doesnt want to be with those 10 children, can you move him to a different group?' or 'betty is in group A but will be being picked up by someones mum in group B. or someone from group A will be in the loo at the same time as someone from group B.........

Might've missed something however some of you are talking about teachers going 'back' to work. I hope you're talking physically; I've never left. My classes have work set, 80% are doing it, 100% marked with encouraging comments, personal weekly update with tutor group, all replied replied to, weekly department meeting, 4 sets of Y11 exam papers marked (assessments in Feb/March), data sheets filled in for ranking and at least 5 parents emailed each week - and replied to - for welfare. Also, I've done four shifts (8-6.30) for key workers children.

I have my own two boys on the Xbox when I'm at work and live with my 80 year old mother in law whose partially paralysed due to stroke. Never complained about 'shielding' her.

Teachers are still at work.

I think just chuck them all in and school as normal. We need to get to the point most people have had the virus before winter flu season kicks in otherwise the second third and fourth peaks will be even more disastrous.

If schools don’t go back many many people are going to loose their jobs. There is no way round it

Companies are starting to open. When they open they will expect their staff in. In the roles that can’t be done from home. This is logical.

When they open and expect their staff in they stop furlough immediately.

Plenty of working parents need school or paid child care to enable them to go into work.

Furlough stops the moment a company reopens it’s doors. It is an an employers decision on if a staff member should be furloughed, generally the staff are needed to run the business,, Otherwise why are they employing them if they don’t need them, very few employers are in that position with excess staff they don’t need. And not many wish to show their employer they aren’t required.

So no child care, but companies open and expecting people to be back in work and stopping furloughing as soon as they reopen their doors.

What are all the parents going to do who need child care? Take their kids to the non essential shop they work in with them? Take them to the factory to the office, to the garden centre?

Schools/ nurseries/paid child care and companies need to reopen at the exact same time, otherwise there is a huge disconnect and a quarter to a third of working adults, which is the percentage who have kids below 11,, will simply not be able to work.

So their employers may let them stay off for a couple of extra weeks on unpaid leave, or very very likely they will have no option but to lay them off if they are unable to come to work and don’t know when they will be able to.

It’s a complete and utter disaster waiting to happen if schools and paid child care don’t reopen but companies do reopen.

And make no mistake about it. The companies are opening. They aren’t waiting till July or September. They are doing it over the next few days.

I am not a philistine but we need to focus on plugging maths, literacy, geography, history and science gaps for the disadvantaged students.

Thinking about my most disadvantaged students (and all the pupils in general), these children will have been off school for 10 weeks.

Only children won't have seen another child in that time; those with siblings will only have been with their siblings.

Some, depending on the anxiety of their parents, won't have left the house in that time.

Some don't have a garden to play in.

Some will have been ignored by their parents and spent 10 weeks on their phones/tablets.

Some will have watched their parents' relationship breakdown.

None will have seen their grandparents/wider family.

Some will have engaged with the online learning; some definitely haven't.

Some will have lost family members to this virus.

Most will be bored, lonely, anxious, terrified to some degree or another.

They will be excited and fearful about returning to school - esp when it looks as different as we expect it to - reduced numbers, desks apart, staggered lunch breaks, etc...

Our main concern will be the mental health of the children; resocialising them with their friends etc.

PSHE will be, arguably, the most important subject upon their return.

We are not expecting our school to resume anything like normal teaching.

Added to the fact that a phased/pt return means most children will be in school for around 15 days, or thereabouts (35 days approx between 1 June and the summer hols) and i think some people might have unrealistic expectations of what school is going to look like for that last half term!

Threads like these make it very clear Mumsnet is a middle class hivemind.

Keeping schools closed till we have a vaccine is just not viable. Vulnerable children will suffer as will those on less secure incomes. But who cares right?

The economic damage will have a greater impact on life expectancy than the Coronavirus.

Plus there's increasing evidence that if you are healthy and under 60 your chances of dying are pretty close to zero.

The bottom line is parents want children to go back to school ull time and asap so they can return to work. Understandably.

Schools want to ensure that children's return to school is appropriate in terms of protecting both the physical and mental health of the pupils. Understandably.

I don't think anyone has yet come up with a suggestion that satisfies both of these requirements so compromises will need to he made on and for both sides.

Personally I’d want to see a phase in week of half days then everything back to as normal as it was before, I’m not even joking, but that’s up there with my getting a unicorn for my birthday in terms of likelihood.

And yes, I am fully aware that CV isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

Our main concern will be the mental health of the children; resocialising them with their friends etc.

PSHE will be, arguably, the most important subject upon their return.

We are not expecting our school to resume anything like normal teaching.

Without a doubt.

Bombarding them with urgent catchup Maths, Eng, Science the minute they return is not the way forward.

I think just chuck them all in and school as normal. We need to get to the point most people have had the virus before winter flu season kicks in otherwise the second third and fourth peaks will be even more disastrous.

Thank God you're not the one making the decisions.

My preference would be a return as soon as possible but drastically reduced days. So 1/2 days in school so there is some formal teaching but with reduced pupil numbers to best allow for social distancing.

Then the days kids aren't at school parents / caters can do what reinforcing work they are able to at home.

My kids mental health is being noticeably impact by lack of social contact now. I need them to be back for that alone. I'm very much content for the time they spend together to be greatly reduced and for school procedures to change radically.

Realistically every school is going to
Have to do things slightly differently as they all have different year group sizes and spaces. I hope they have flexibility to do what works best for them.

Just go back to normal when reopening.
No social distancing because it's simply not possible.
As for staff, no different to any other workplace setting.

No different to any other workplace setting?
It couldn't be more different to the majority.

While I understand the incredible challenges facing those who are WFH, face redundancy and so on, I feel it is foolhardy to return more children to school until we have more clear information on asymptomatic spread, and the (increasing ? ) emergence of the syndrome that mimics Kawasaki.

We all get a grip, decide either no school until a vaccine in the full knowledge this could be never or in several years, and then restart schools. Bit like work.

Staff who are shielding get protected pay with ideally online work eg running online tutorials. This lasts a set period of time not indefinitely.

Staff who are not shielding are treated as normal and managed out if they refuse to work, or resign

Massive campaign to get young graduates into the classrooms to replace these teachers asap. It takes a year currently but they can train on the job. Helps with unemployment as well.

To ease people back into it, start with y10,12 and primary years 3,4,5 split over more classrooms. But longterm that is not feasible. Of course, long term we'll have most caught it or be protected by the renamed 'shield immunity'. Depending on the science of young children not spreading it (if they don't spread it then open all years) young children might not start til age 7, as per other countries.

No different to any other workplace setting?

I suggest all those who keep saying schools are no different to any other workplace setting go and spend a bit of time in one and then reflect on that!

I've worked in other places and I can tell you that school is unlike any other workplace I've been in. Amazing and I love it, but completely different.

You know the children who make WFH so difficult for you all with their demands and their needs and their idiosyncrasies and, yes, their poor behaviour at times? They don't leave those at home when they come to school, you know!!

Only you only have to deal with your child. We have to manage everyone's! And their conflicts with each other and still do our job (which is to teach them) 🤣

And its really obvious from the responses who has experience in schools, or the imagination to understand, and those who don't.

I'm happy for my dc to go back 2 days a week.
the school seems to organise it sensibly and I can continue to work from home.

I think if will be good for dc, mentally and academically. classroom teaching is a lot more effective than via worksheets and video.