For those who want schools to go back..

[pfrench]

.. tell us how you think it should work. Primary or secondary.

In your ideal world.

How would social distancing be adhered to?
How about drop off and pick up?
How would classrooms operate?
How about lunchtimes and breaktimes?
What about after school childcare provision?
What about staff who are sheidling?
What about children who are sheilding?
What about staff who have family members who are sheilding?
Should only some children go back? Who should they be and why?

So many education and school experts on here, it will be interesting to read your safe solutions.

Are people not worried about the new hyper inflammatory disease that children are getting as a result of Corona virus? New article in the Evening Standard today about 40 children treated in London with it.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/children-hyper-inflammatory-disease-coronavirus-a4434636.html%3famp

I just don't think it's safe for schools to go back yet. Infection levels are still too high in the community.

Teachers will die as a result of going back too early. Staying alive is the most important thing here.

No lavender I'm not concerned because the chances of children catching whatever that condition is are tiny.

We take risks in our lives every day. This is a small additional one for healthy people.

Everyone is @ risk. We can’t keep the schools closed for the majority until the risk has gone.

Other countries are already opening schools. Maybe check out how they're doing it.

We need to compare like with like though. E.g. Danish class sizes average around 19. Ours are 30.

I'm happy for the schools to open any time. I just want the government, and therefore parents, to be honest and realistic about what we can reasonably achieve/deliver and the expectations.

I think that, whatever happens, we won't just be opening schools in anyway that resembles a reversal of their sudden closure so it's not going to facilitate the mass return to work and childcare solution that some people are hoping for.

I really do understand that people can't go back to work until their children are cared for during working hours, and I understand people's fear about their jobs and income. I really do. But people being snippy at each other on here isn't going to have any impact at all on what actually happens or what the government decides or whether that is even the right decision.

Once again, there is huge hostility towards teachers and I just don't get it, tbh. Most of us want to get back - we miss our children; we're worried about our vulnerable children and, frankly, delivering teaching and learning in the way we are currently doing so is hard work and unnatural.

There’s also hostility towards the nhs...
I think it’s the ways posts are written sometimes.
People are very snippy and a bit aggressive sometimes - it’s really unnecessary.

The sooner the schools reopen the better. There is risk in whatever we do in life. I have 2 kids aged 10 and 3. The risk of them becoming seriously ill with Covid is minimal. There is growing empirical evidence to show (read the BMJ-British Medical Journal)that kids do NOT transmit Covid19 even if they have it.

Small group of kids, go to school for half a day to do the main lessons , English maths phonics for Y1 bin everything else as it’s not priority. Divide them in groups - don’t mix together . Lunch box from home. Spread pick up and drop off time.

The BIGGEST problem here is the parents who are super spreaders. Their contact web must be in the 100s,

As a 54 year old member of support staff at a school, I’m not sure the discussion on here is encouraging me to go back.

Kids up to what age, Ladolcevida?

There isn't growing empirical evidence at all. There's tonnes of completely conflicting evidence that people cherry pick in either direction to prove their points.

I mean, you can call it nonsense if it makes you feel superior, but that doesn't make it so. I've been talking to a lot of secondary school teachers this week who are massively concerned about current year 6s making the transition to year 7 after having been out of education for such an extended period. And that's without considering the emotional impact on them of the total lack of transition- which surely people will not need explaining form is about an awful lot more than a day of sex ed, shirt signing and chatting about secondary schools.

I don’t know why you’re so sensitive about this but it really is nonsense. Explain to me what the teachers are going to do in a half closed, very different school environment that will help your child ‘transition’?! I have a Year 6 too btw. And also, I remember my own ‘transition’ - since we’re calling it that. It was all a bit new for a while and then I got used to it.

Exactly, @nellodee - the Scottish government said this week that opening the schools would likely overwhelm the health service in less than 2 months.

I have year 6. We won't be able to have them all in at once without including some other year group teachers to enable teaching of smaller groups. That would then cause problems with them teaching one set of kids while still setting work for their own class. And the parents of y6 won't want their kids coming back to a different teacher while others have the teacher that knows them well.

I can see, when we are allowed back in to school to prepare, that I will be moving my tables apart as much as possible but not stressing too much about the 2m as that will have been disapplied for schools.

They will have to have their tray on their table with their own set of resources put into their tray for them to use so there's no need to move around too much or share resources. Then as they leave they will put away their trays. Then when the next 'shift' are in they would take their trays to their table for the day(s).

I am not impressed at the thought of an 8.30-6pm day with the half hour break in the middle as suggested up thread. That's a lot longer teaching day, with very little time for lunch (I have a 50 min break at the moment and usually manage 25 mins of that in the staff room once you've accounted for prep time etc ready for the next session) and 30 mins to swap shifts won't allow for any time.

Mostly, it doesn't leave any time for cleaning between groups of children. I think we'd need kids in for 2 days, then a day in between off (teacher PPA and time to allocate/prep/respond to all the online learning that is still going on otherwise alongside the in school learning). The 2 days work in school prepares them for the work they then complete at home. The 2nd shift then comes in later in the week to do the same.

Just a thought

The empirical evidence in our house is that I caught covid from my (9 year old) son who caught it from his peripatetic music teacher who caught it from some other pupils.

@daffodil101, I did read the thread, every post, and I have seen other posts from people (on other threads) who were very upset by the teacher-bashing on it. You tried to make out you weren't being goady, but it was always going to attract people who were going to pile in, which is of course what happened and why it was deleted.
Anyway, this might become a TAAT, so I will leave it there.

@DrMadelineMaxwell from speaking to friends in Switzerland that is how they are doing it.

Split the school half do Monday/Tuesday

Wednesday to regroup and get things sorted/schools cleaned

2nd half Thursday /Friday

I dont think it a long term (i.e. September) solution but I think it is one that works for June-July

I think we'd need kids in for 2 days, then a day in between off (teacher PPA and time to allocate/prep/respond to all the online learning that is still going on otherwise alongside the in school learning). The 2 days work in school prepares them for the work they then complete at home. The 2nd shift then comes in later in the week to do the same.

That sounds quite reasonable actually.

A lot of parents wont like it though because it doesn't provide adequate 'childcare'.

Just go back to normal when reopening.
No social distancing because it's simply not possible.
As for staff, no different to any other workplace setting.
It was fine 7 weeks ago. It will be fine when it reopens.
Chill. Dont go to school if you dont want to.

But surely if what it takes to get schools back running is for each child to have their own calculator, pen etc (and it’s a disgrace they don’t anyway, how can you let your child go to secondary school without a pen?!) then either the government buys a set for each child, to be kept in school In individual labelled sandwich bags or something,
I'm Primary, and my TA and I have spent a ridiculous amount of time labelling up handwriting pens, whiteboards and their markers, rulers etc, all to be kept in a large zipped wallet. I would say, on average, that there are at least 3 pupils per lesson who have lost (or can't find) one or other (or all) of those items. I find pens on the floor, or behind tray units or dumped on tables and I don't know who the owner is because they've picked the label off. Or a child I know I gave a new pen to yesterday now complains it's run out of ink, because another child has removed the label and swapped the pen for their chewed one..... You get the picture? Welcome to our world.

Whatever the decision the government takes, whenever school goes back, there’s no easy solution.

I think it’s a bit like a flow chart that starts ‘can schools stay closed until there’s a vaccine?’ And you answer ‘no.’

And after a few other other yes/no questions, you end up with questions like ‘can young children socially distance’ and ‘can a rotation system work long term’ and you keep answering questions and end up with a scenario where schools open and do the best they can.

I wouldn’t like to be responsible for making the policy here, it’s an impossible position, which is why we have so b mmh any differing opinions.

Some of this is hilarious.
So we'll be in school, sitting children at separate desks ( which we haven't got) teaching them whilst we and they are wearing masks, ( how?) teaching from the front of the room, not going round looking at their work.
We won't b e doing interventions because the rooms we do those in are not much bigger than cubby holes, so not able to.socially isolate in the re.
Not quite sure how lining up will work ( necessary when moving around, e.g. to playground or hall, there's not enough space to do that. We'll need extra staff to escort children in small groups, but still not next to each othe r. What about equipment? Balls, climbing equipment - oh no, they won't be able to do thay, because what if they hurt themselves? Who's going to leave a crying, hurting bleeding child 2m away?
What a about pen suckers, nose pickers, hands on the t able, ch airs, books?
And as for handwashing... it doesn't work. Even if the children wash their hands befor e and after every break, ( which they did at my school) I still caught Covid before lockdown. I hadn't been anywhere except to and from school by car l for over a week prior to getting ill. Schools just don't have the facilities or space. To wash their hands they either have to exit the classroom in small groups which need to be supervised, squeezing past other children as they do, or use the sink in the classroom, squeezing past the rest of the class 1 or 2 at a tim e.
Then what about the children not in school? Online lessons and work are not the same as lessons in clas s, we can't do both at the same time. Will some children get months ahead of their peers?
Have them back in school or don't, but let's be realistic about what that involves and the risks healthwise. No point in pretending that social distancing is possible in most primary schools, because it isn't.

I think we'd need kids in for 2 days, then a day in between off (teacher PPA and time to allocate/prep/respond to all the online learning that is still going on otherwise alongside the in school learning). The 2 days work in school prepares them for the work they then complete at home. The 2nd shift then comes in later in the week to do the same.

I went for a walk earlier and dithered over this option. Maybe alternate year groups? R, 2, 4, 6 in for 2 days, 1, 3, 5 for the other 2 days. Those two days set up the 3 days at home. Or, we go French and Wednesday is a day off for kids!

Positives - every child gets some face to face teacher time. So, from a safeguarding perspective, we get eyes on all children. Also obviously the academics, in so much as education will be happening.

Negatives - doesn't fit as a childcare thing at all. Not sure where key worker children of the 'not your day' year groups fit.

I taught year 6 for six years by the way, so I genuinely think that a day or so would do it. I'm not talking from the pov of not ever having done transition. I also think that if they have to come back into smaller groups, not spending time with all their mates, not spending time with their usual teacher etc, then half the emotional stuff will be impacted even further.

Schools can stay closed until there's a vaccine, though. It's not ideal, but it's certainly not impossible. It's a lot more possible, say, than "Can farmers stop working until there's a vaccine" or "Can bin men stop working until there's a vaccine." I'm not in any way saying it's desirable, but it's absolutely possible.

Someone on an earlier thread made a very good point. What is the purpose of schools reopening? If it's childcare, then it's not going to be effective, at least until we have cases low through test and trace, rather than through social distancing. If it's education, then that can be done through distance learning. We just need to get a lot better at its delivery.

Some of this is hilarious

Absolutely, this is why I wrote 'your ideal' in the OP. It's been a relatively reasonable thread though. Some interesting ideas. Schools will be doing all sorts of random things to make it work for their own community, I bet some of the stuff that seems bonkers in here is trialled. It's quite good that it's the last term really, we get to try stuff a bit without committing to 'new year' plan.

Actually, that's another positive for year 6 being the Guinea pig year - they are (allegedly) the most mature, so might be able to follow instructions more easily.

Someone on an earlier thread made a very good point. What is the purpose of schools reopening?

That might have been me. I definitely had a twitter conversation with someone around that. What are we extending provision for in June (if it's June)? Why? If it's for childcare, then let's make it childcare and not pretend it's education. If it's for education, then it can probably only be a random combo of school and home learning to make sure that all children have fair access to it. That's irrespective of who they're opening for - all children or some children, because the 'all children' option is going to have lots of absence issues related to it, so still, a potential need for home learning provision.

If we're not opening this side of the summer holidays, then... bah, I don't know....