Is it just me, or is this working from home with children completely unsustainable?

[Lovemyphone]

I'm terrified that the schools will remain closed until September.

I'm wfh with two dc. Youngest is 4, as the weeks go by it's becoming more and more unbearable and I can't do it much longer. I'm on my own because dh is still out at work. My employer have been pretty good and taken a 'just do what you can when you can' approach. But the work is picking up again, at the same time the dc are climbing the walls now.

I can't even make a phone call or do an online meeting without constant "mummyyy", or one of them hurting themselves, or asking for snacks, or trashing the house.

Surely it's neglect to essentially leave your children unsupervised for 7-8 hours a day? Which is essentially what you're expected to do.

Is anyone else in this position and just cannot possibly see how this can go on?

Yes, the staff would need to socially distance from each other/parents, but a situation in which children are unlikely to spread it to them is not going to be as dangerous or unworkable as one where children are really likely to spread it (like they are with flu).

Of course we need to keep childcare workers safe. But we also NEED childcare, as a country. We need to risk assess it based on what the actual risk is, not just cancel it indefinitely because nobody except the people who use it think it's important enough to work that out.

Little ones will naturally go to an adult to hold their hand or give them a hug. That may be safe but what happens if the carer goes home and passes it onto their family?

Like I said: "You might not even need to socially distance children if the research suggesting they really aren't likely to spread it holds out." There is a lot of research at the moment suggesting that children generally don't spread it to adults. If this holds out (and of course we need to be as sure as we can), childcare settings become a lot more feasible than they would be with something like a flu pandemic where children spread it a lot.

I'm also in the category of beginning to worry about benign neglect. My two year old is very difficult to manage around constant teaching on Zoom and the students patience, even amusement, when he breaks in is wearing off I feel. (As well it might -- see threads on not returning their fees.) But my 5 year old who is a shy child and struggled settling into reception is starting to break my heart. He's JUST got to the point where he had proper friends and was excited about going to school, and with each passing week he seems more and more introverted and withdrawn, often in a kind of fantasy world fuelled by the massive amounts of TV he watches and the computer games we've started to let him play (because TV uses up bandwidth we desperately need for our work Zoom calls).

It almost seems to be a kind of infantile depression. Does anytime know anything about that? Today he said 'I don't enjoy very many things that I do.'

We are also not going to be able to afford his private school fees if this goes on indefinitely. We had a minuscule discount this term and have paid thousands of pounds essentially to keep the place open. So will mean moving him to a new school, too. I really think that (if settling in problems resume) will have a lifelong negative impact on him.

Which makes me want to rip Boris's throat out for his pathetic lack of leadership and willingness to throw the most vulnerable and least represented people in society under a bus. To continue the metaphor... they're then going to be asked to climb out and repair it for free.

Protecting the vulnerable is no goal for a civilised society if it only means protecting vulnerable adults (with votes and spending power). But that's what the government is doing. We get a lot of claptrap about protecting the vulnerable when what they really mean is looking after the elderly voters who swept them into power and have already fucked our children over by voting for Brexit.

Now they expect (not always with a whole lot of gratitude) that working parents and kids make vast sacrifices for them as they sit in their large expensive houses (which none of us will ever be able to afford) ordering their Ocado shopping, pottering about gardening, drawing down on their vast reliable pensions, and generally carrying on as normal (for a retired person). Talk about generational inequity!!

As I say, we have found it fairly straightforward but then little one is 9 and so is a bit older. Would be harder with a younger child.

Right, then, you're not coping so well because you're an amazing team, you're coping so much better than the people with small children because you don't have a small child. Same with the person saying that all the people with over 8s they know are coping fine - what's the fucking relevance of that on a thread where people are discussing the difficulties of WFH with toddlers and young primary age children? It's like me going onto a thread about caring for elderly parents and saying 'oh I actually find it all very easy, perhaps because I'm naturally good at it, perhaps because my parents are in their 50s and in good health, who can tell?'

Agreed golden

Need some consideration of the available evidence of risk relative to normal life vs the perceived risk (for which the media is not helping)

I know people say different here but many I speak to have said they realise how they can actually cope without the childcare they so thought they needed. These are wfh parents but admittedly with children aged 8 and over

So maybe have a chat to people who are homeschooling younger children while also looking after babies and toddlers before coming to any conclusions about how easy people are finding it?
Funnily enough in general my friends with older children aren’t struggling too much either. That does not negate the experiences of those who are struggling.

That is really sad hopsalong. I have definitely noticed my five year old getting glummer and less lively about everything as the weeks drag on too. And I feel like such an awful parent that I can’t even be there to help much through it

God I hope there is some way for them to socialise with peers in some way soon. They badly need socialisation for their development and it would be downright cruel to keep them away from it for any longer than absolutely necessary.

Completely unsustainable. And our situation is slightly easier as kids are 9 and 7, so better able to occupy themselves for a couple of hours at a time. In theory I could shift my working day later to get more done in the evening but after the homeschooling and constant Zoom calls, I'm exhausted by dinner. We're now at the stage where either I or the DCs cry every day, usually all of us at some point.

I just hope that we're able to find a way to safely re-open schools soon as I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say it's affecting my mental health.

Just reading the Guardian article saying the schools are unlikely to begin returning from 1 June. I could cry. I feel like such a bad mother that I can’t cope with my own daughter like this. It’s relentless.

It doesn't help that a large part of my job (and the bit I enjoy most) can't be done at home. Dh is supportive of me going in some days (he can do limited home working but needs to go into work a lot) but work have assigned me home working and no matter how much I say I'd like to go occasionally (for my mental health) it seems to fall on deaf ears. I'm missing career opportunities (and it feels selfish to say that given the circumstances) that colleagues without kids or with partners at home are getting. I was just settling back in at work after large periods out and this has just made me feel more isolated. Some days I feel totally forgotten about.

Yy to it being relentless. I've also had a bad day today when the news tide has turned and it looks like maybe schools and childcare might be closed until September. The unknowningness is so awful. So many people who feel they just CAN'T do this for another four months. It's insane.

If it wasn't for work it would be ok. Not great, I'm not a natural SAHP, but we'd find a routine. But trying to work around a 3yo is insane. Why the fuck are they all so bothered about pubs and sport when there's a significant chunk of society who are close to breaking point trying to do this?

What scares me is that I could maybe asked to be furloughed, I could maybe ask for unpaid leave - but there's the biggest fucking recession coming, if I do that now, that surely puts me at a much, much higher risk of being made redundant later.

I just had a conversation with my parents where my mum said she didn't think she could cope having both kids at theirs at the same time once this is over. I could cry. I know I have no right to expect them to have my kids but shit, my dad's happy to have both, I just want to hope that at some point in the future there might be a night or two of some relative peace after the potential months of trying to do a hundred things at once.

I hate this 'school isn't childcare' talk too. I know it isn't. But its a simple fact that unless you choose to home school, all kids from 5 - 18 go to school during term time and millions of us have planned our lives and our finances around that. Losing it isn't a matter of some selfish people whining that they haven't got childcare. We're going to lose our jobs, our houses and a decent grip on our mental health at this rate.

Yes it's horrific. Were both working jobs with a lot of pressure and deadlines, 2, r and 5 year old trash the place downstairs, or spend all day on iPlayer. So tired o everyone saying oh but you're safe. Well, no, unsupervised toddlers are not safe.

I think they should at least allow childminders to operate. If they limited the numbers, the risks would be very small.

We have about 9 key worker children a day at my nursery. It’s manageable and feels quite safe.

I can understand why larger numbers would be a problem, but surely small, home based settings could start to reopen.

Why the fuck are they all so bothered about pubs and sport when there's a significant chunk of society who are close to breaking point trying to do this?

I think we're just invisible. Honestly I think a huge proportion of the country does not realise what this is like for WFH parents and our children right now.

It doesn't help that I've been searching today for advice on maintaining children's mental health during this when they're lonely and bored and increasingly stressed and so much of it of it is "oh don't worry, just spend lots of lovely quality family time together and they'll be fine." Yeah, lovely quality family time hissing "in a minute, darling, Mummy's still on the phone, can you put YouTube back on?"

@Rainbow12e what exactly are you getting from coming onto a thread about the difficulties of WFH with small children, to mention repeatedly that nothing will open soon and pointing out that you find it easy because your personalities are so suited (and of course the fact that you have a single 8 year old to care for, working flexibly)?

It's just so relentless and DH and I have found this last week really draining. We have 6 year old DTD's and and are both trying to WFH. We split the childcare/home schooling 50/50 but there is never a moment to think as we're constantly shifting backwards and forwards between roles. Whilst we've found our rhythm the mental strain is growing and I can feel myself burning out. There is no one else at work in the same position as us or our social circle which I think makes it feel even more isolating as no one gets the pressures that we both feel under.

It’s a fucking nightmare! My dc school won’t take them if I’m wfh even though I’m a full time key worker and so is dh who goes out to work every day!

I feel so sorry for you all.

Of course it's unsustainable. Looking after small children is an actual, undervalued and necessary task. It's not possible to let toddlers and babies roam free for 9-10 hours a day. That's why childcare and SAHP exist.

Just posted this on another thread, but wondered what you all thought.

Apparently, moving in to another household (eg grandparents house) for the duration is fine (and obviously can really help if wfh) - but why is it any different to grandparents visiting/providing childcare - if both houses are themselves isolated and travel is via car? And having a nanny come to look after your kids is ok but not having a grandparent/unpaid family member? It makes no sense.

No it makes absolutely no sense @Therabble
Almost arbitrary rules.

Someone can be paid to look after children but a relative can’t do it for free.

And having a nanny come to look after your kids is ok but not having a grandparent/unpaid family member? It makes no sense

The biggest difference is that the nanny is a paid employee - so is (a) still under the guidelines of being able to leave home to come to work where WFH isn't possible and (b) also by continuing to work is safeguarding a job. Perhaps they also think that (d) allowing family members would open the doors to a lot of families blending, with furloughed aunties and uncles babysitting for multiple households, or grandmothers with health risks feeling obliged to continue child care and (e) it would be taken up by a lot of people, leading to increased spread Vs the relatively smaller number of nannies.

But yes, despite all this I think it's unfair, particularly where there are young children or those with additional needs, and low risk family members who could help. However, moving in with family or having them move in with you is still an option.

@Therabble I think we are going to have to start this at some point next week with my mum who is 68, in good health ( in fact we think she's had it already 2 months ago). We cannot go on. Not only are the kids a wreck, we are exhausted, house is a tip - no energy to clean or tidy at the end of the long long days. It's cumulative too - just can't keep going.

We've all but given up on home schooling, and I'm cross because I think school have been hopeless (dons tin hat).

I'm glad to have found my tribe here....