Today I feel incredibly angry

[awaywiththecircus]

I’m feeling incredibly selfish. My family luckily are all fit and well. If we catch CV we will in all likelihood be I’ll for a few days at worst. I see the impact this is having on us and feel incredibly angry. My dc should be at school, socialising, having fun. DH and I should be at work keeping a stable roof over our heads. But obviously it’s all gone to shit.
And all the fit people who are insisting they are going to stay locked up at home until there’s a vaccinationFFS.
Even my close friend with a shielded dc is feeling that we have massively overacted to this when weighing up the collateral damage we are causing. I know I’ll get flamed but I’m truly at the end of my tether.

Saying only the older vulnerable population should lockdown is illogical -because you'd also have to lock down everyone who comes across them - their families who do care, carers, doctors, nurses, dentists, etc and THEIR families and people who come across them. So in effect all of society.

And saying we shouldn't have slowed down operations and cancer treatment (urgent are still going ahead) is also illogical as there is a real risk anyone in hospital for treatment could catch coronavirus from hospital and due to the operations / treatment be vulnerable and could die. They may also be incubating it and transfer it to the doctors and nurses who are isolating themsy to protect other vulnerable patients.
You need to get transmission way down to reduce the risk.

We should learn from democratic countries in Asia such as Hong Kong, Singapore, S Korea
e.g. Hong Kong had 8 deaths out of 7.4 million population

Implement comparatively cheap & simple measures that work and enable most of the economy to continue:

. wearing masks outside
. taking your temperature and not going out if it is over 37 C
. temperature monitors outside places of work, supermarkets, restaurants, gyms etc. so you aren't allowed in with 37+

Also learn from European countries like Germany:

. mass testing
. mass contact tracing and mandatory isolation of the infected
. early treatment of the ill, including home visits, but also early hospital admission for O2 when tests show low blood O2 or there are breathing problems.

Imo, the people principally to blame are those, in Government and without, who minimised Covid repeating “its only the flu” and resisted stronger action earlier in March.

If only we’d done what so many other countries had done, we’d be nearly out the other side now. Look at NZ.

It’s ironic that so many of those who have, and still do, vigorously oppose lockdown, are the very reason we needed to have it (and couldn’t be like Sweden) and why we won’t be able to emerge as fast as other countries.

@BigChocFrenzy

If no lockdown more people would have died but you wouldn't have been any more likely to die if you got it iyswim.

So if I got it in lockdown I'd have a 98% chance of living. Same as if I'd got it outside of lockdown.

Lockdown only ensured enough hospital beds.

I'm with you op. I'm just getting so fucking angry. I don't care if I'm selfish. My dc are missing an enormous chunk of their education. Bollox to home schooling, this isn't school, I'm just doing my best as well as trying to work. My youngest also has possibly undiagnosed LD which we're being looked at before lockdown. They're missing out on all of their social activities, sports they'd worked their arses off for.

They're low risk, how is this better for them? Mentally and physically. They've gone from doing sports several timed a week to being allowed one poxy walk a day. And I'm sorry, but prancing around in front of the telly to Joe Wicks is a shit substitute for their sports.

Before this I was running 3 times a week, swimming, cycling. I can't do all that now as well as walk my 4 year old.

It's just so shit.

It's not illogical at all. My mom is shielding due to copd. We can hopefully visit her and still maintain distancing, but she is well aware that it is her responsibility to keep herself well. A sacrifice she is prepared to make.

I don't understand saying those who minimised it meant we couldnt do a Sweden?

Surely those people's ideal was doing a Sweden?

There isn't even any compelling evidence that lockdown works.

The molly coddled attitude that people have to death makes me so angry. None of us deserve to live. You can put a price on death - we do it everyday.

This has to stop soon, I am starting to rebel already and I know I am not alone.

I personally would be happy with a gradual release of lockdown.

But this is what's going to happen - so who are you arguing with here?

I feel like a lot of these posts are arguing with an imaginary person who wants lockdown to go on until there is a vaccine - a straw man.

Regardless of whether you personally care about the people (healthy or unhealthy) who become ill for a couple of weeks, or those who die, from coronavirus, if there are too many of those ill people at once then all sorts of society's systems will break down.

If there is too much coronavirus circulating, then the illness that causes (even without the deaths) will fuck all sorts of things up.

If there is too much coronavirus circulating, then people will not be going to non-essential shops, to restaurants, cinemas, events - even without a rule telling them they mustn't. They won't be planning big weddings or going on holiday or booking haircuts.

If there is too much coronavirus circulating, then all sorts of businesses will suffer. Routine healthcare won't happen due to all the staff sickness. Cancer treatment will be cancelled. Dentists won't be able to treat people, psychiatric appointments will be cancelled. Bus drivers and paramedics will be off sick, some for weeks.

If there is too much coronavirus circulating, then people with cancer, depressed teenagers, pregnant women - they will all risk being ill with coronavirus at the same time as their existing problems, and facing major problems with the services they need to use.

Our only hope is to reduce the amount of virus circulating as much as we can, and to keep it at a low, known level by testing, tracking and tracing, and social distancing. Lockdown has started that process off. The next stage, as that is phased out, will still involve an enormous amount of hard work by all of us.

Every interaction we have or business decision we make will need to be assessed and tweaked so that it is done in a way to prevent, or reduce, virus transmission. Some things will be easier to do than others. We do have a lot of collective power to make this happen though.

All these posts saying this is ridiculous, it's gone on long enough, we need to get back to normal with healthy people going out and only the vulnerable hiding away - they all seem to assume that it's going to be fine for healthy people to go out because it won't really matter if they (you) catch the virus.

It will matter - the individual risk might be low for some demographic groups, but the collective effect of lots of them (you) being ill at once, and the illness spreading via them (you), will be huge.

There's no way out of this that doesn't involve trying to reduce infections - a policy of generally accepting widespread infections for healthy people is simply not a viable option.

On the positive side, we have a lot of power, collectively, to change our behaviour once lockdown has been phased out. But to do that we all need to remain appropriately cautious about avoiding catching and spreading the illness. We can't go out with the attitude that catching it doesn't matter.

We need to go out with the attitude that avoiding catching it really matters, even for healthy people, but feeling confident that the actual chance of catching it will be low because of the lockdown (initially) and then the testing and contact tracing and social distancing (longer term).

But this is what's going to happen - so who are you arguing with here?

Erm the people who think lockdown has to continue or else well kill half the country?

The people who don't want school to open until September or until a vaccine ?

Half on MN essentially

OP I have been angry from the outset about this. Knee jerk panic to shut everything down -keep scaring people about this 'terrible disease' and now stuck with dim witted people bleating for tougher lockdown and vowing my to keep their kids off school till it is 'safe'
Fine for those on occupational pensions /for the young it is catastrophic.

Coronabored I take it your mum is well enough to care for herself then? My mum with COPD needs carers and help with the house. She has contact with a fair number of people every week and that's not that uncommon amongst the older population.

I don’t really understand people who yap on with “it’s not just about you”. If you’re one of them, do, please, lock yourselves up indefinitely. The rest of us have assessed the risk and want to get on with our lives. We’re perfectly capable of doing that, thanks. Some people choose to go wingsuit flying, others to do their job while there is a vanishingly small chance of death/serious physical damage from corona. I want to take those risks. We’re through the overwhelming-nhs danger. Let’s get on with it.

Lockdown only ensured enough hospital beds.

Well, that was the original reason for it. So we have plenty of hospital beds, never even used the Nightingale hospitals. This is not now about the NHS but for the life of me I cannot work out what it is! I think we believe we can somehow stop the bloody virus existing, engineer our way out of this using 'the science'

Shame we fucking can't. And we just need to get on with our lives.

Yesterday the Times reported on Sage's minutes from March. This is extremely disturbing.

"A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened; it could be that they are reassured by the low death rage in their demographic group... The perceived level of personal threat needs to be increased among those who are complacent, using hard-hitting emotional messaging."

It's thing for the government to recommend or even compel altruism. But it's incredibly unethical for them to lie and craft propagandistic messages to get them to act out of bogus self-interest. The plan seems to have been to make the "perceived level of personal threat" higher than the actual level, for most of the population.

About 60% of the population is under 45, and 340 or so people have died from covid in that age group. It's fantastic if the majority of the population is willing to make serious self sacrifices on behalf of the minority, but it has to be a decision motivated by genuine altruism not by trumped-up fear.

No she can't fully care for herself. She has just had a hip replaced so there is that. She has a wonderful friend who comes round and sorts lots for her all while keeping a safe distance. It can be done if you stop looking at negatives all the time.

It doesnt matter whether nos of infected are small or large, what matters is that infected people should not experience serious symptoms/death to the extent that we cannot leave our houses or socialise with others/work alongside others for fear of contracting it. So mitigation of symptoms effective treatment and interventions to boost.the immune response of general population should be most.inportant thing.
First stage was protect nhs by staying indoors, second stage should be protect yourself by running I km/walking 5km a week, taking vit d, eating 5 fruit and veg..going to green space every day, whilst working and living normal life. Is that so hard to enforce when they have enforced this lockdown on pain of "death to others"?

Hang on a minute...you're not thinking about others here, all scenario's. What about people like me that want to stay in and not die but have to go out? There are still lots of new cases. There's no way lockdown will be lifted next week. The citeria hasn't been fully met. People need to stay patient.

*go out to work

Could everyone saying that the numbers of death have been so low that lockdown was unnecessary please fill in this list with their best guess?
Please don't forget to include people who would have died from other causes due to the NHS being overwhelmed for a 10 month period (March to Dec) and suicides due to grief and anxiety.

Numbers of deaths in the UK from or with Covid-19 in 2020 if there hadn't been a lockdown:
Under 45s -
46-65 years -
65+ -

Also, how many NHS and residential home care workers would have left the profession if there had been no lockdown?

I'm watching Sweden, but they may not have our levels of underlying health problems/obesity/vitamin D deficiency/multi-generational shared homes and any other factors which may have made this inherently worse for the UK.

Every extra week ensures a more serious recession. The chances of you dying if you’re under a certain age/not obese/reasonably healthy are very very low. Yes, there are examples. Yes, you might get hit by a truck. No, we can’t shut down the entire economy indefinitely because someone’s mum’s had a hip operation.

There's no way lockdown will be lifted next week

Some restrictions might be and a plan will be put forward so brace yourself

I don't think the lockdown is worth it. I am sticking to the rules though.

Woah feelinghistoric I am on your side

@BuddleiaTime I reported your post. I would have thought as a grown adult you’d be able to disagree with someone without swearing at them but clearly not.