Five months in. Why are highest death tolls only in the west?

[Legoandloldolls]

Any thoughts?

No mass problems anywhere else. Even in countries that healthcare is only great if you are have private cover.

If it's really because we arent contact tracing them that still doesn't fully explain it. Not every country can afford to contact trace.

No out brakes anywhere else in China

I’m in the UAE and it’s been very well handled here. For example:

• Everyone coming into the country since March is sent to a quarantine hotel (and the borders are closed anyway now).

• They are trying to test everyone in the country and people are starting to get text messages being summonsed for tests (thankfully I haven’t had mine yet as it’s not a very pleasant procedure!).

• Contact tracing is shit hot; for example someone in my husband’s organisation tested positive in March and hundreds of them were then tested.

• If you test positive, they do an assessment of your home situation and if you live in a risky situation (eg house share or have vulnerable members) you are taken to a hotel and monitored and then taken to hospital if you start to find you are breathless (much lower criteria for treatment than in the U.K.).

• A stem cell research centre here is pioneering a new technique involved stem cell treatment

• They have trials of all the hopeful drugs going on

• Plasma treatment is standard where potentially beneficial (yet it has only just started in the U.K. on a trial basis),

• If they find an outbreak (as they did in a poor area of Dubai) they close the whole area off and test everyone until the area is clear - then give them all a massive party to celebrate (true story - and slightly crazy I must admit!)

• I’m not allowed to take my kids to the shops and we all have to wear mask and have our temperature scanned at the entrance of every single building

I must admit that I got a bit jumpy when this first started to blow up here, and thought about going back to the U.K., but as things have evolved I have become very grateful indeed to be here.

As ever, interesting to see all the differing views based on the same information we all have access to.

As usual, some of the views have an obvious bias against the government and their handling of the issue.

Others presume fat shaming is going on, see racist overtones, etc.

I have my own views but for once will keep them to myself.

Nah, I've changed my mind 😁

In the countries that have done well, they generally don't outsource their elderly to care homes where they are looked after by minimum wage staff.

Press freedom including social media.

I know people in two African countries and they both had extremely strict and swift lockdown including closing borders way before we did. (Did we ever??)
They both have more authoritarian governments than we do.

Australia hasn’t been hard hit at all. I don’t know why. Yes they don’t have the mass population. But in the cities people love and work closely and air con in offices which you’d think would help to spread the Virus.

I think they have under 100 deaths so far and are easing their very relaxed lockdown.

I know people in two African countries and they both had extremely strict and swift lockdown including closing borders way before we did. (Did we ever??)
They both have more authoritarian governments than we do.

Time will tell if this is the right strategy though I guess. I'm really worried about the economic shocks of this in countries that are already on a pretty unstable footing at the moment. A major part of the lockdown for us was to avoid overwhelming the NHS but many African countries are not exactly flush with ICUs so you wonder what is the point. If it starts spreading again as soon as restrictions are lifted then it may have been for nothing really.

Absolutely @heroku
When you have 20% youth unemployment rates and you stop people earning anything, and you only provide minuscule welfare payments to a small number who qualify and nothing to the rest, well you've saved people from dying from covid but you've also potentially got civil unrest on your hands - serious poverty, crime, addiction and destruction of infrastructure.

Tourism and being an international hotspot is also another factor, as well as population density.

Plus there are so many conflicting voices all wanting to do things their way.

At the beginning people were questioning any need for a lockdown at all and continue to do so citing Sweden. People complained about not being able to visit relatives in care homes, but didn't think about having them at home instead.

Now even after saying the lockdown didn't start soon enough, the government is constantly asked when it will end. This despite the cries that there have been too many deaths.

Without a fundamental change to society and people's attitudes to each other, I don't expect anything better.

Lockdown only makes sense as a policy in countries which can provide a basic level of income and food to everyone during that time

Otherwise, very poor countries are mostly just protecting their tiny ruling elite and their small mc from getting COVID

feesh - that sounds a good plan except for the party.

Eu has open borders and we arent even checking 1 person.
Our country response is for the rich and powerful.
They forget they are voted in by the average person.
I will possibly never see another conservative gov in my lifetime after this c××× up!

People will not forget the
Lack of ppe
Lack of ventilator
Staff
Returning positives to care homes
Not recommending masks
Saying all thesevpeople are more vulnerable but sending them back to work
Cheltenham and other mass gathering places arent likely to forget either

@DobbyTheHouseElk Australia has been quarantining anyone who arrived into the country in hotels - I’m not sure how long for, but I think since March. That’s why they’ve kept a lid on it.

The British borders have been open the whole time and there’s been no compulsory restrictions on anyone arriving in the U.K.

My family live in Australia and hadn’t heard that. Very interesting.

Yep, I’ve heard from a few Aussie friends who have had to move back home. Apparently it’s real pot luck which hotel you end up in and what food they give you!

In the long run the uk may end up with better outcomes than countries who have acted quickly to damp down the virus. Our death rate may be higher at the moment but we will continue to see a steady rate of deaths throughout the pandemic. Lockdown was not put in place to save every life but to give the population as a whole the best possible chance of survival.
Our healthcare system has been allowed time to ramp up capacity in order to deal with what is likely to be a chronic epidemic over the rest of the year. Flattening the curve will allow safer deployment of NHS staff from outside the acute services to be adequately trained to work in critical care when ( not if) the second wave hits.
History tells us that pandemics can’t be effectively controlled unless we work globally and we know that is not going to happen.
Many of the carehome deaths would have had DNRs in place so secondary medical care would not have been an option. Only time will tell how badly we have done.
But I wish people would understand that lockdown is not a solution. Ultimately history tells us that with novel viruses until enough of us have had it or are vaccinated it will keep on killing.

Although I don’t think warm weather is a factor directly, bright sunshine is known to kill Viruses. Especially in the Uk we have a very “indoor” culture, especially as the weather isn’t exactly great most of the time. I venture to suggest australia and most African countries have a more outdoorsy culture, many more actually working outside for example, which I imagine is a strong factor.

People complained about not being able to visit relatives in care homes, but didn't think about having them at home instead.

You're assuming they'd have been able to be moved safely, and that any needed adaptations would be able to be made in time - and of course it may be possible to have a loved one at home full time when you're not having to leave the house to work, what happens afterwards? Would care home places be reserved? Would they still have to be paid for? All assuming there is room at home for an extra person.

Many people, if they could manage at home, wouldn't put their loved one in a home in the first place.