Five months in. Why are highest death tolls only in the west?

[Legoandloldolls]

Any thoughts?

No mass problems anywhere else. Even in countries that healthcare is only great if you are have private cover.

If it's really because we arent contact tracing them that still doesn't fully explain it. Not every country can afford to contact trace.

No out brakes anywhere else in China

In the scheme of things, I think it's inevitable, that the UK has been badly hit by the virus. We are a smallish island after all, and somewhat contained. Lots of people visit here from all over the world. as lots of people love to come to the UK, especially to LONDON., so we have had a lot of risk factors to contend with.

Arrogance probably had something to do with it.

This is a UK site

Is it?
Since when?

Maybe it hasn't hit the rest yet. It might have something to do with lifestyle choices in Europe. Aging population in Europe too.

According to Wikipedia, Italy has the 5th oldest population in the world, Thailand 65th.

"In the scheme of things, I think it's inevitable, that the UK has been badly hit by the virus"

Yes, because the government did nothing to prevent it.

Lots of countries have different risk factors. Korea and Japan are extremely densely populated with extremely elderly populations but you don't see 1000 of them dying a day.

People are just making excuses at this point.

The government fucked up because they thought an epidemic wouldn't spread like this. It was pure arrogance.

Your post is incomprehensible and shows an utter lack of understanding of life outside your cosy first world bubble
Okay. I misread the OP as I have processing issues. Sorry I answered incorrectly OP.
I read it as why are we as in the the UK the worst in comparison to the rest
I see it has got some posters underwear in a twist.

Me too about refugee camps. They contain a significant number of BAME and in the west. I'm presuming that's because they are mostly young fit and healthy men.

Maybe that's part of picture. Those in poverty dont make old age, but again that's not true in India or Pakistan ( dont get irate, India is not the land of the rich and entitled. Except if you choose to ignore the fact the rich live aside extreme poverty but your alright Jack so forget poverty exists in your own backyard)

People do live to ripe old age there. Yes theres plenty of cash and healthcare but not everyone has access to it.

A bit like SA. Your doing great in your gated community with your private healthcare. But on your doorstep there are people not living as fabulous lives as you.

I guess it could be down to age? Maybe there is a element of travel, but you would except the travel part to catch up at some point as again, India has masses of international travel. It's a global business hub

I think there is a number of reasons for the lower death toll in Africa.

• younger population
• more time to prepare
• less travel between areas
• experience of previous pandemics

Here we have a lot of people who stay alive despite chronic illnesses, in countries with poor healthcare, they die. Africa doesnt often have the kinds of mass gatherings that we do here regularly, the governments and the population both know how deadly outbreaks of disease can be, whereas in the West thats alien to us.

I find there is a kind of salivation tho on some Western journalists about how terrible its going to be when it hits developing countries, who almost seem disappointed that that is not turning out to be the case.

Some people might live to a good age in India but they're actually 137th for average age with a median age of only 28

I think that it is mistaken to think that richer countries are healthier. If as it seems, metabolism could a factor, then those of us who eat too much processed food and too many calories, will be more at risk than someone in what we consider a poorer country, who only eats "real food" and fewer calories.

Because the WHO have not set out a standard approach that the deaths from CV-19 are to be reported.

Yes Sarah, we're not healthier, we're just (usually) better at keeping unhealthy people alive.

So many of the vulnerabilities are preventable/wouldn't happen if we were less spoiled. I wonder if people will start to take action on that now, as individuals or as a nation?

Hi In poor African countries , it has been “survival of the fittest” for generations. The population has been exposed to tropical diseases, famine, lack of health care - it is genetically highly selected for resistance to infections generally.
Not only that, but the demographics are the opposite of the West - there are v few vulnerable elderly, but massive numbers of children and young people, who are much less affected by Covid.
Add to that the fact that shanty town and slum dwellers don’t fly on foreign holidays or mix with international travellers who do. And isolated rural African villages have almost no outside contact.
It’s not hard to see why all these differences would mean lower death rates than in the West.

I don’t understand what keeping the poor ‘artificially alive’ is supposed to mean?

Do you mean that without benefits they would starve/freeze to death?

Africa doesnt often have the kinds of mass gatherings that we do here regularly

I think they do... churches etc.

"Africa doesnt often have the kinds of mass gatherings that we do here regularly"

That's quite the generalisation

I think it has to do with temperature (SARS-CoV-2 doesn't do well at higher temps) and an older population. South Africa is nowhere near the peak of infection.

Lots of factors:
a) accuracy of collected information
b) strength of health infrastructure - are cases even being spotted
c) obesity rates
d) age demographics
e) poorer survival rates of conditions which lead to poorer COVID outcomes
f) greater population experience in dealing with infectious diseases

The British press isn't really reporting on the situation beyond Europe/US, but I hope researchers are working globally. That's what WHO does - and I hope contributing nations cash hasn't run out yet. This sort of work is important.

Some of the reasons are:

• Higher average age
• Higher prevalence of underlying health conditions and obesity
• Better recording and reporting (although compared to most Western countries we have been pretty shambolic)
• Greater exposure to international travellers
• Lack of experience in dealing with pandemics (Other countries, especially the Asian ones, have lived through swine flu, ebola etc.)

I think we are underestimating the things that developing countries do have - they have governments and a population who are prepared for things not to go to plan. They shut down effectively and have a number of contingency plans in place for things like droughts, civil unrest, electricity shortages.... crisis planning is taken seriously.

For example, Namibia declared a state of emergency after the very first confirmed case - they have contact traced everyone around each case and shut the country down. They are now on day 26 without any cases, and have had no deaths at all.

South Africa mobilised community testing and tracing very early on, after implementing one of the strictest lockdowns. They have been open with the population and have a strong, evidence based plan for coming out of it. Here are their lockdown levels - they put our government to shame:

lockdown levels

To jump straight to "they must be lying," is quite short sighted. If they had the shambolic leadership we have, then I'm sure they would be worse off. Even with good leadership, there are inevitably going to be some terrible outcomes in places where distancing and hand washing are not realistic, but if we really want to learn then we have to look at what is being done well.

Because it mainly affects the over 80's (hence the care homes issue) and in many of these countries very few people reach that age.

"West" compared to S Korea, HK, Taiwan, Vietnam : difference is never recently had an respiratory contagious virus like SARs. In those Asian countries, Masks are the norm, especially in any healthcare setting, disinfecting handles and lift buttons is constant etc

""West" compared to S Korea, HK, Taiwan, Vietnam : difference is never recently had an respiratory contagious virus like SARs. In those Asian countries, Masks are the norm, especially in any healthcare setting, disinfecting handles and lift buttons is constant etc"

They actually responded to the crisis. That is the difference.

Fuck, why can't people just admit the UK and most of the west dropped the ball?

I’ve heard from friends in a middle Eastern country that there is a 7pm to 7am curfew and only one person is allowed to leave the house to get food, wearing a mask. The population have adhered to this and trust the daily updates on the news. This has caused the rate of spread to decrease significantly and so the rate of infection and death is dropping. I wish we could manage that here!