How many employers are being arseholes with regard to wfh with children?

[charmers2501]

Would just be interested to see how many employers are not being flexible or supportive with regards to working while also trying to look after children.
I asked as soon as the schools shut about changing my hours and working evenings and over the weekend. I do an admin job and I am classed as a key worker due to the nature of my job. I could easily do my work in the evenings and weekends and I put the request in to do this with no loss of hours. I would have stayed up til midnight if I needed to. I was flatly refused as I was told I needed to work "core" hours.
It's getting harder and harder. My child is constantly in tears or having a major meltdown. I have to log on the system when I have a wee ffs! It's a system that tracks breaks, working time etc.My daughter is struggling badly and I cant cope much longer. There is less work and so I asked again and explained my issues. Again refused. I asked to be furloughed in the end but that was refused too. I got told that I could claim unpaid leave. I cant afford to. I'm a single mum.
I got marked down on a call last week as my child was playing rather loudly with her paw patrol stuff and it was "distracting and could be seen as unprofessional". So they expect 8 hours a day with 2 15 minute breaks and 30 mins lunch and to be at my desk completely for the rest of the time. It's impossible. I cant ignore my daughter. I now have had time taken from my annual leave to make up periods where I was trying to sort out my child. They just expect the same level as if I were in the office and I think I'm going to explode with stress.

If you have COPD you’re in the shielding group so you can’t send your child to school. Does your employer realise this?

digital.nhs.uk/coronavirus/shielded-patient-list

Think carefully if you claim WTC as if you take unpaid leave and claim UC you will lose WTC forever.

They know I'm in the group, they just keep banging on that I'm a key worker.
I would have to claim income support as I get severe disability premium in housing benefit so they dont have the systems in place for me to claim UC.
I get HB top up.
It's not something I want to do though. It took me ages to get off benefits and back to work due to my health.

Oh and I dont have calls. Purely admin.

Surely admin can be done at more flexible times. I really feel for you and admire you for getting back to work with your health problems. Your daughter should be very proud of you.

I am a key worker, and working from home. My city council's key worker childcare application only accommodated kids that were already placed in schools or nurseries, so my 1 year old will be spending his days with me whilst I'm also working from home on calls.

I did contact my union to explain that sometimes I just won't be able to meet my contracted hours and we had a meeting via Skype where I explained that it's not that I won't do my job, it's that sometimes I can't do my job because of the situation we're in.

I managed to negotiate that I would recieve paid leave to make up my hours as long as they could see a fruitful effort on my part to meet some of my hours, and be flexible with them on a daily basis.

Perhaps you should call your union and explain over the phone what your situation is and ask for immediate representation.

My work stated clearly that anyone needing to looking after their children would be considered to be choosing unpaid leave. After demonstrating that my partner would do the childcare I was furloughed on 80% salary.

When the schools closure was first announced there wasn't even a mention of it in our department (HR - what a joke) ! I had to bring it up with my incredibly unhelpful boss who told me I had to just treat it as if it's the summer holidays eg use up my annual leave brilliant suggestion !! I have ended up having to temporarily reduce my hours as furloughing isn't an option. I have since been told I can work from home but 'to be clear this can't be treated as childcare' and she expects a full day's work from me, again brilliant. Not sure what she expects me to do with my child ! I told her to forget it I'll come into work jees !!

Keep calling your union and call ACAS. As you are disabled they should be making reasonable adjustments and this can include short term changes to your working hours - please get some advice on this

@charmers2501 I could have written this post it's so like my situation, a boss who doesn't understand, single mum, admin, only child, no garden ! My daughter is getting thoroughly fed up and having meltdowns she misses her routine, her friends, the park. I just want our routine back and to be a proper mum again it's getting me down!

Thanks everyone, you are all being so lovely. I'm a bit rubbish on this, dont know how to highlight people's names etc but thank you all.
For everyone else in same situation, thinking of you all, its bloody hard.
It feels better for me just having a moan about it. I will speak to the union again and I'm already looking for a new job, cannot stand working for anyone that thinks it ok to treat their employees like shit pandemic or not.

I would speak to ACAS, and the union again. Your disability means you are in the shielded group and therefore cannot send your daughter to school. In which case perhaps you could frame your request to work evenings in terms of a reasonable adjustment due to your disability, as it is your disability which is preventing you from sending your daughter to school. Suggest that to both ACAS and the union.

Your employer sounds awful. I'm an office based key worker, most of us are now working from home bar a small number who can't (helpline workers mainly) and are going in to the office. Anyone in the vulnerable or shielding groups who cannot WFH, for any reason, is on paid special leave.

Horrified at how you're being treated!

Thanks for the further info OP. You're right you would be prevented from claiming UC due to the SDP gateway rules. If you went on unpaid leave you could claim employment and support allowance whilst still being employed which I assume would increase your HB but obviously stop any WTC. Once we return to some type of normal and you return to work you could simply ask for WTC to be reinstated and HB to be recalculated on earnings. You may be entitled to council tax reduction whilst on unpaid leave.

All local area allowances have been increased also so you'll probably get more towards your rent than when you were previously on a higher amount of HB and ESA.

But before all of that, speak to in fact demand to speak to your union. You don't pay subs for nothing.

Best of luck.!

Have you had a shielding letter? In mine it said to show it to your employer so they know.

I’m about to get flamed for this I know, but I'm going to say it anyway. There is absolutely no evidence that the employer should be demonized. We have one very sparse side of the story here. Just because the employee thinks they can and should be able to work in evenings and weekends - or whenever suits them - does not mean that the employer can support that. We don't have their side of the story.

I have just today had a conversation with one of my staff on similar issues. I am being as flexible as I can be with the HALF of my team who have small children. I am allowing them to work evenings and weekends, but there is also a need for them to be around when our clients need them and not when it's convenient for them to be. They understand that. We are already turning a blind eye people working and doing child care at the same time, which is absolutely against policy. You don't get quality work if someone is looking after their child, and the child doesn't get proper and safe supervision if you are working.

Sooner or later I will have to return to policy. If you are looking after your child it will be unpaid leave, annual leave or resign. That doesn't make me a bad or evil manager, and it doesn't make our employer bad or evil. The job needs doing and it is need when it is needed.

So I might be sympathetic to the problems of parents, but I still have a service to run and we are swamped, utterly swamped, by the need of our clients.

Oh and I dont have calls. Purely admin.
OK. I asked because you said 'a call' earlier and I thought you might mean a client call. So your work can be done 'out of hours' then, with no business harm?

Moondust001, the OP has partially answered the concerns you raise.

Not everyone with copd shields, only those on a triple inhaler or roflumilast.

Sooner or later I will have to return to policy. If you are looking after your child it will be unpaid leave, annual leave or resign.
My employer is likely to go the same route. I am on the receiving end (as a single parent with two KS1 children), but I can see that there's very few other options.

If you are looking for comparison examples, both DH and I had employers who were extremely inflexible at the start but then realised it wasn't practical and have now agreed systems that are working really well for everyone. We now work shifts as do the other members of the teams we work with so all hours are covered and we are working our usual full time hours. There's one point in the day when we are both on official work calls so the children are bribed with biscuits at that point but otherwise we manage between us. It has opened new ways of working and new possibilities for the future.

I would have thought that this experience was an opportunity to see that things can be done differently, rather than quickly expect a "return to policy" without even considering the alternative. Newsflash: humans aren't robots!

That is absolutely awful OP, and you have my massive sympathy.

how creative can you get? Is there a parent or relative you would consider inviting to live with you until lockdown restrictions are lifted to occupy your child during the day?
Can you work nights to get ahead for the week, and then just login during your core hours but the work is already done?

Sooner or later I will have to return to policy. If you are looking after your child it will be unpaid leave, annual leave or resign.

Does that apply to employees who are making it work though? I'm working a lot of night hours, but my 8yo is old enough to be left unsupervised with his iPad for a fwe hours if I need to take conf calls in the day. Upshot for the employer is that the work is still being done, and i'm still available when needed, and my child gets most of a school day with my attention. Does it matter that there's a child at home?

Newsflash: humans aren't robots!
No they aren't. And employers only have jobs that they need doing, not the ones that people want to do.

@IntermittentParps The OP had actually answered what she thinks are the the facts from her point of view. Just because it's her opinion that she can do her job at her convenience doesn't mean that the employers view is the same.

I totally get that managers and employers need to be flexible with people at this moment in time. But what we think is reasonable may not be someone else's opinion of reasonable. The OP does have other alternatives, including asking for unpaid leave, or going off sick. They chose not to do so because they can't afford it. I get that. But why is it so different for the employer to say that they "can't afford" to be more flexible? We don't have their side of the story.

Moondust, I did say 'partially answered' and I realise we don't know the employer's POV. My point was that the OP's new info suggests (not confirms, suggests) that her work can be done in non-core hours.

@TwelveLeggedWalk
That's my point. Every situation is different. There is no blanket answer. Two of my staff must work core hours. Because that's when our office "front" is open. Their job is to answer emails and phone calls between 9 am and 5 pm. That's the job. I can't let them do that job at 8pm because there isn't a job to do. Maybe the OPs employer is being unreasonable. But we do not know whether they have a good reason for what they are saying. Maybe our "front of house" staff think I'm awful for making them work when I need the work doing. But they'd like it even less if I decided that work wasn't necessary, because that would be called redundancy.

Op are you a civil servant by chance??
I used to work in child support agency and thats exactly how they expected us to work. Same breaks etc and 'core' hours.
Even if not they are still being cunts with their fucking heads in the clouds and not in the same reality as rest of us.
You have my sympathies. Ended up going off sick when they refused my request to change my hours . Never went back.